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What does it mean to forgive? - 11/22/2008 10:10:01 PM
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csl7037
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What does forgiveness look like? Is it possible to forgive someone and to say you think to see them would make you ill?
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RE: What does it mean to forgive? - 11/23/2008 8:24:00 AM
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agapetos
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I think you could get a million different answers to this question.
I think there are some people who can forgive instantly and completely. Years back there was a huge case here where a woman was raped. She was a Christian and forgave her attackers ~ not sure how long it took, but it was before the trial (and because she said she forgave them, the rapists were given a lighter sentance).
I think there are some who forgive in steps. I know that when I've been hurt by some people, it has taken time to forgive. I can't help but feel that forgiveness can be something like peeling the layers from an onion and we need to work through all the layers (be it fast or slow) until we reach the heart of forgiveness.
Some of the people who've hurt me most aren't in my life any more. While I feel that I've taken big steps towards forgiving them, I'm not sure how I'd feel if they came back into my life.
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RE: What does it mean to forgive? - 11/23/2008 8:49:58 AM
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Cloak
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
What does forgiveness look like?
Forgiveness simply means letting go and letting people of the hook but it does not necessarily mean forgetting what they have done. Trust needs to be earned, otherwise offenders would assume that they have done nothing wrong and would continue to hurt over and over.
quote:
Is it possible to forgive someone and to say you think to see them would make you ill?
I know EXACTLY what you mean by that. Yes they definitely seeing our offenders makes us sick and we have every right to keep them at arm's length, hence my saying forgive them but do NOT forget what they have done; Unless genuine repentance took place.
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And My God shall meet ALL Your Needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4: 19)
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RE: What does it mean to forgive? - 11/23/2008 9:47:58 AM
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csl7037
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But assuming genuine repentance has taken place. But I'm not even sure it matters. I just don't see how someone can say they've forgiven but, if they saw that person, they'd "vomit".
I'm asking because a friend and I have both been very, very wronged recently. The offender is very repentant and taking all the necessary steps toward restoration. God told me right away that, to forgive meant to forgive completely - like He does. I am still hurt and recovering from this myself but I am walking in freedom because of what I would call this revelation from God. Nothing has taken root in my heart that is not of God. I have no problems with the offending party - again, yes it hurts, but I am free to love and pray for this person even though I realize the relationship is changed forever. My friend, on the other hand, claims to have forgiven but their comment struck me...how is that forgiveness? I just hear such bondage in that and worry that my friend is falling into a trap that can do way more damage than the actual offense.
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RE: What does it mean to forgive? - 11/23/2008 10:09:03 AM
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agapetos
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Hurt and reactions are different to forgiveness. A cut hand takes time to repair. An heart that has been hurt emotionally takes time to repair. I know (because I'm a clutz) that when I've had a cut (that requires sutures) it's gonna hurt for a while ~ to the point I've felt as though I was going to vomit when I've knocked it accidentally ~ and this can go on for months after the initial injury. Doesn't mean that the cut isn't healing. Just because your friend thinks she'll vomit if she has to see this person doesn't mean that she hasn't forgiven them.
You say this hurt is recent ~ and the chances are that your friend is still reeling from it. It may take her longer to recover from the shock of being hurt than it's taken you. Remember that you come to this hurt with different backgrounds and experiences and what is normal for one person isn't normal for another.
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RE: What does it mean to forgive? - 11/23/2008 11:40:14 AM
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AbbyGrace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
But assuming genuine repentance has taken place. But I'm not even sure it matters. I just don't see how someone can say they've forgiven but, if they saw that person, they'd "vomit".
I'm asking because a friend and I have both been very, very wronged recently. The offender is very repentant and taking all the necessary steps toward restoration. God told me right away that, to forgive meant to forgive completely - like He does. I am still hurt and recovering from this myself but I am walking in freedom because of what I would call this revelation from God. Nothing has taken root in my heart that is not of God. I have no problems with the offending party - again, yes it hurts, but I am free to love and pray for this person even though I realize the relationship is changed forever. My friend, on the other hand, claims to have forgiven but their comment struck me...how is that forgiveness? I just hear such bondage in that and worry that my friend is falling into a trap that can do way more damage than the actual offense.
I understand completely, and I do believe alot of people have a hard time forgiving others, and think they do, because they truly dont understand whats going on in this world we live in. I have been wronged so many times in the last 7 months by my ex, and during these 7 months, I have slipped and said some things that I shouldnt have said, but I have always written him, and said, im sorry, I shouldnt have said that, and Im asking that you forgive me, but of course, I get no response, because he is a very prideful man....but I know in my heart, that I have done whats right, and God approves me, and thats all that matters. And something that has always helped me, is when God brought understanding to me about forgiveness. Its not flesh against flesh in this world we live in, its a spiritual battle...good vs evil, so as a Christian, when someone wrongs me, and yes it hurts, we think it isnt fair, but we have to remember, its spiritual, they are being used by the devil to strike out against you, and we have to show mercy to that person, by forgiving, extending a hand out to them and praying..........and thats when they will know, we are different, we are set apart from this world we live in, and they know that its not us, but its Christ who lives within.
_____________________________
Hebrews 12:14 "Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." 
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RE: What does it mean to forgive? - 11/23/2008 11:43:57 AM
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agapetos
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I think it's important to remember also that you friend is saying she's forgiven this person. Now it may not be the full forgiveness that you say you've given the person, but she's not going round saying that she hates the person and wants vengance (not justice) on them. It sounds as though, at the very least, she's taking steps towards fully forgiving the person.
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RE: What does it mean to forgive? - 11/23/2008 2:22:21 PM
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Cloak
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I forgot to add to this: Unless genuine repentance took place FOLLOWED by Radical change in behaviour that is the result of the Holy Spirit who is at work in them.
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Blessings!
And My God shall meet ALL Your Needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4: 19)
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RE: What does it mean to forgive? - 11/23/2008 3:18:02 PM
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Child4Jesus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
What does forgiveness look like? Is it possible to forgive someone and to say you think to see them would make you ill?
You can forgive some but that doesn't mean you have to be friends with the person. Sometimes reconciliation is not possible and you are better off not seeing each other.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: What does it mean to forgive? - 11/23/2008 3:45:52 PM
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Cloak
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
What does forgiveness look like? Is it possible to forgive someone and to say you think to see them would make you ill?
You can forgive some but that doesn't mean you have to be friends with the person. Sometimes reconciliation is not possible and you are better off not seeing each other.
Really? Is that what Christ teaches? Do you have Scripture for this?
Yes it's true what Child4Jesus advised. As I said b4, Jesus Christ asked us to "Forgive" but mind you He never said to forget what they have done. As we forgive them, we should not forget what they have done as trust needs to be earned from offenders.
_____________________________
Blessings!
And My God shall meet ALL Your Needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4: 19)
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RE: What does it mean to forgive? - 11/23/2008 5:18:43 PM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
Well then I have a question. Does Christ not live within us? He does me. And when He forgives us of our sins, does He forget? Yes He does. He does not question us, He forgives the moment we ask, and its to never to be remembered again, so if we are to be like Christ....then where do you come up with this, we should forgive, but not forget? I would like Scripture on this one, please.
This is exactly where I am and what God has shown me through all of this.
Ephesians 4:32 NIV
Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
Doesn't He call us to forgive as He forgave us? God doesn't say, "I forgive you, now stay away from me." I'm dealing with some very difficult stuff right now, as is my friend. But I'm finding that "conventional wisdom" (even that found in Christian circles - and Christian books) doesn't line up with what God says about it. There's such tremendous freedom in doing this His way. I'm not bound to the hurt and the offender and I are both walking in freedom. Yes (to another post above) repentance has been followed by radical change and the Holy Spirit is moving in this situation. I feel like my bitterness would hold us all (or at least myself) in bondage if I chose to hold onto it as my "right" or as what's naturally to be expected of me in this situation. I just hated to hear my friend say that because it sounds, like I said, like they're getting stuck in this and letting bitterness take root.
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RE: What does it mean to forgive? - 11/23/2008 5:25:26 PM
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delete123
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
then where do you come up with this, we should forgive, but not forget?
AbbyGrace~
I actually have to agree with Cloak and Child4Jesus. Yes we are to forgive, but if we forget then the offense can happen again.
I know we are commanded to forgive, however Jesus did not say I forgive you. What He said was Father forgive them.
I was abused as a child and the pain that I have gone through I will never forget what they did to me. However I am forgiving enough that I allow them to see and even speak with my child.
When they were unable I have mowed their lawn, trimmed their hedges, painted their house and did many other things. Doing this did not make me forget what they did, but reminds me of my sins and trying to be Christlike.
The offense is there, but I will not feed you a stone when you are hungry.
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RE: What does it mean to forgive? - 11/23/2008 5:25:49 PM
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AbbyGrace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
Well then I have a question. Does Christ not live within us? He does me. And when He forgives us of our sins, does He forget? Yes He does. He does not question us, He forgives the moment we ask, and its to never to be remembered again, so if we are to be like Christ....then where do you come up with this, we should forgive, but not forget? I would like Scripture on this one, please.
This is exactly where I am and what God has shown me through all of this.
Ephesians 4:32 NIV
Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
Doesn't He call us to forgive as He forgave us? God doesn't say, "I forgive you, now stay away from me." I'm dealing with some very difficult stuff right now, as is my friend. But I'm finding that "conventional wisdom" (even that found in Christian circles - and Christian books) doesn't line up with what God says about it. There's such tremendous freedom in doing this His way. I'm not bound to the hurt and the offender and I are both walking in freedom. Yes (to another post above) repentance has been followed by radical change and the Holy Spirit is moving in this situation. I feel like my bitterness would hold us all (or at least myself) in bondage if I chose to hold onto it as my "right" or as what's naturally to be expected of me in this situation. I just hated to hear my friend say that because it sounds, like I said, like they're getting stuck in this and letting bitterness take root.
Well the most important thing here, is knowing, that forgiving someone is not always a feeling, but a knowing, and its a process that only God can take a person through. There maybe many post to this, with many different responses and advice, but from my experiences with forgiving someone, it wasnt always feeling like I had forgiven, but I knew in my heart that I had because I took it to the Lord, and He helped me with it. And we have to be very careful with the things we speak into existence, there is power in what we speak, and alot of people dont even realize that. But whether you feel it or not, speak it, "I have forgiven...so and so, and the devil will have no foothold on me with this." You will be amazed with what a turn around you will have with what you speak. But no one will ever convince me that we are to forgive a person, but yet turn our backs on them, that is not what Christ teaches me. If someone has hurt you, and you forgive them, and then you find out that person is in need or hurting, dont you think Christ would want you to extend a hand to that person? Of course He would....He does this to us all day, everyday, and its then, that the person who has wronged you, will see Christ in you. Now how GLORIOUS is that my friend?
_____________________________
Hebrews 12:14 "Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord."
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RE: What does it mean to forgive? - 11/23/2008 5:39:28 PM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
If someone has hurt you, and you forgive them, and then you find out that person is in need or hurting, dont you think Christ would want you to extend a hand to that person? Of course He would....He does this to us all day, everyday, and its then, that the person who has wronged you, will see Christ in you. Now how GLORIOUS is that my friend?
...and you don't have to let yourself in for more hurt or abuse. That's not what we're saying at all. You have to be smart. I realize all too well that, for healing to take place, the relationships that I'm struggling with right now have to change; they are changed forever by what happened. There's no going back. We have to be smart moving forward. But not being able to be in the same room with a person you say you've forgiven doesn't seem much like "moving forward" to me. I just pray that my friend gets to a place of freedom with this and doesn't get dragged back into bondage from anger and bitterness.
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RE: What does it mean to forgive? - 11/23/2008 5:43:30 PM
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mvic
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Hi csl7037,
I think I understand what you and your friend are saying.
Let me relate my experience. Some time ago someone hurt me really badly. That person has now moved away to another town far off. We've not seen each other for a while.
I think I forgave that person. Albeit that person never asked for forgiveness; and possibly doesn't care whether I have forgiven or not.
I just imagined that if that person asked me for forgiveness then I would forgive.
Of course, I just can't forget. How can I? Since everyday I am living with the consequences of that person's hurt. And I will continue to live like that for the rest of my days.
Also, deep inside me, I really do not want to see or speak to that person ever again.
Am I wrong in my views? It's for others to judge. I feel I have forgiven, I am living with the consequences, yet I do not wish to meet that person again: for my own good. Such a meeting I feel would possibly bring back all the hurt and bitterness once again.
Jesus forgave us for nailing Him to the Cross. Yet He remembers our actions everyday. He has the scars in His side and on His hands and feet to remind Him.
Everytime He sees these scars He forgives us once again. Whenever I see my situation everyday I forgive that person once again.
But for my own peace of mind I do not wish to see them ever. Maybe ... one day ... In Heaven, if God so wills it. But then I hope He will give me the strength to deal with that encounter.
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RE: What does it mean to forgive? - 11/23/2008 5:44:21 PM
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agapetos
Posts: 5558
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cloak
quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
What does forgiveness look like? Is it possible to forgive someone and to say you think to see them would make you ill?
You can forgive some but that doesn't mean you have to be friends with the person. Sometimes reconciliation is not possible and you are better off not seeing each other.
Really? Is that what Christ teaches? Do you have Scripture for this?
Yes it's true what Child4Jesus advised. As I said b4, Jesus Christ asked us to "Forgive" but mind you He never said to forget what they have done. As we forgive them, we should not forget what they have done as trust needs to be earned from offenders.
Well then I have a question. Does Christ not live within us? He does me. And when He forgives us of our sins, does He forget? Yes He does. He does not question us, He forgives the moment we ask, and its to never to be remembered again, so if we are to be like Christ....then where do you come up with this, we should forgive, but not forget? I would like Scripture on this one, please.
OUr sins were forgiven, yes.... but God doesn't forgive them until we ask for forgiveness... I've forgiven people who've hurt me in the past ~ have they asked for my forgiveness? Not all of them. So are we meant to not worry about forgiving anyone until they ask for it? I suspect not. We need to forgive others regardless of whether they ask for it or not.
_____________________________
I could give up chocolate ~ but I'm no quitter!
My blog
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RE: What does it mean to forgive? - 11/23/2008 5:49:07 PM
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AbbyGrace
Posts: 660
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quote:
ORIGINAL: agapetos
quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cloak
quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
What does forgiveness look like? Is it possible to forgive someone and to say you think to see them would make you ill?
You can forgive some but that doesn't mean you have to be friends with the person. Sometimes reconciliation is not possible and you are better off not seeing each other.
Really? Is that what Christ teaches? Do you have Scripture for this?
Yes it's true what Child4Jesus advised. As I said b4, Jesus Christ asked us to "Forgive" but mind you He never said to forget what they have done. As we forgive them, we should not forget what they have done as trust needs to be earned from offenders.
Well then I have a question. Does Christ not live within us? He does me. And when He forgives us of our sins, does He forget? Yes He does. He does not question us, He forgives the moment we ask, and its to never to be remembered again, so if we are to be like Christ....then where do you come up with this, we should forgive, but not forget? I would like Scripture on this one, please.
OUr sins were forgiven, yes.... but God doesn't forgive them until we ask for forgiveness... I've forgiven people who've hurt me in the past ~ have they asked for my forgiveness? Not all of them. So are we meant to not worry about forgiving anyone until they ask for it? I suspect not. We need to forgive others regardless of whether they ask for it or not.
And I never said that. Believe me, I have ask for forgiveness and I have forgiven, when that person has never once said Im sorry nor have they forgiven me, but thats just it, thats fine with me, as long as Im doing right by God, thats all that matters, and if that person needs help, I'll be there, thats a promise.
_____________________________
Hebrews 12:14 "Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord."
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RE: What does it mean to forgive? - 11/23/2008 5:52:56 PM
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agapetos
Posts: 5558
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
and if that person needs help, I'll be there, thats a promise Ah but this is different from having to see someone every day at work or socially or whatever...
I know there are some people who've hurt me and on my fragile days, I think of them and sometimes the thought of seeing them would make me very ill. But, knowing me, if they were to knock on my door, no matter what kind of day I'm having and needed help, I'd do everything in my power to help them.
Doesn't mean that I'd want them in my life every day.
_____________________________
I could give up chocolate ~ but I'm no quitter!
My blog
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RE: What does it mean to forgive? - 11/27/2008 9:14:55 PM
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Bethel01
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I just wanted to recommend a book I read that answered my questions about what true forgiveness was. It's called "Total Forgiveness" by R.T. Kendall. I hope it helps you as much it did me.
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RE: What does it mean to forgive? - 11/28/2008 1:47:48 AM
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hnt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
What does forgiveness look like? Is it possible to forgive someone and to say you think to see them would make you ill?
You can forgive some but that doesn't mean you have to be friends with the person. Sometimes reconciliation is not possible and you are better off not seeing each other.
Really? Is that what Christ teaches? Do you have Scripture for this?
Abby - think of an ugly issue such as molestation. Lets say your best friend in the world went that far with your child. Are you seriously going to be best friends with this person AFTER they are released from jail - just as you were before?
The relationship will never be same. That is called consquences of life. Your friend and you both will be living that.
Would God ask you to be best friends in the same way as a way to show your faith in reconcilation?
You can forgive your friend, but the relationship isn't going to be best friend again if I were guessing. Are you going to forget that sin? Seriously. Are you?
_____________________________
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Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: What does it mean to forgive? - 11/28/2008 10:56:28 AM
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AbbyGrace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hnt
quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
What does forgiveness look like? Is it possible to forgive someone and to say you think to see them would make you ill?
You can forgive some but that doesn't mean you have to be friends with the person. Sometimes reconciliation is not possible and you are better off not seeing each other.
Really? Is that what Christ teaches? Do you have Scripture for this?
Abby - think of an ugly issue such as molestation. Lets say your best friend in the world went that far with your child. Are you seriously going to be best friends with this person AFTER they are released from jail - just as you were before?
The relationship will never be same. That is called consquences of life. Your friend and you both will be living that.
Would God ask you to be best friends in the same way as a way to show your faith in reconcilation?
You can forgive your friend, but the relationship isn't going to be best friend again if I were guessing. Are you going to forget that sin? Seriously. Are you?
Well first of all, I have no idea why I have been singled out here, and this situation pointed directly at me, but I will answer this from the heart....I never stated that me nor anyone else is "suppose" to be best friends with anyone who has hurt us or who has sinned against us, I have stated that we are to "forgive" and yes, we should forget....is that something that we can do straight away? Is that something that the flesh can do, alone? The answer is no, we the flesh are not capable, but the Holy Spirit is and thats why we rely on Him and in His power. I have a 16 year old daughter, and could not even begin to imagine her being molested, its a thought that I dont even want to think twice about, but if it were to ever happen, and I pray to God that it doesnt, its only Christ and Christ alone, that could get us through it, and that I promise you. Its a daily healing, that only comes from Him. We are suppose to be more like Christ in our everyday walk with Him, we should strive to be more like Him, and when someone wrongs me, and I find it hard to forgive, hard to forget, I have to think about Jesus, our Savior, who died for our sins, and He has forgiven us.
Its not flesh against flesh, its good vs. evil...its a spiritual warfare, and we know the battle has already been won, but we have to fight the good fight of faith, and to be the example to others, we have to allow other to see Christ in us.
I will never and have never put faith in me, but I put it in Christ, to show me how to forgive others, and believe me, He has been very patient with me, and giving me the understanding of it. But as far as being a friend to someone who has molested my daughter, I dont think He would ask that of me or of anyone else, but to forgive...yes, we have to forgive them. If that person were in need and God directed me to that person, it would be His power flowing through me to do what He is asking, and I will always do as He ask of me.
The WILL of GOD will NEVER take US where the GRACE of GOD cannot PROTECT us.
_____________________________
Hebrews 12:14 "Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord."
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