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What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 2:08:48 PM
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Mark328
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What if the roles were reversed, and Obama was pro-life and McCain was pro-choice? Would that have affected who you voted for? And, if so, why?
I'm just asking the question out of curiosity.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 2:11:02 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
What if the roles were reversed, and Obama was pro-life and McCain was pro-choice? Would that have affected who you voted for? And, if so, why?
I'm just asking the question out of curiosity.
McCain would be a lying, cheating, booze-baronness marrying librul.
Obama would be a card-carrying Patriot, and any mention of his middle name would be racist and un-American.
I think I still would have voted libertarian, though, unless he came up with a plan to balance the budget.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 2:12:59 PM
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P31W
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If McCain was pushing a pro-choice agenda there is no way I would have voted for him.
If Obama said he was working to overturn Roe v Wade then I sure would have given him a closer look.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 2:19:18 PM
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stamper_ben
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A man with a socialist agenda is in no way going to be pro life.
But in answer to the general question posed, yes, the views and opinions of a candidate, any candidate, and all candidates, matter greatly.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 2:20:21 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
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I'd have voted Barr in that case. Barry's policy views are detrimental on many more levels than just abortion.
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Give a hoot, eat yer Lute, Der's no risk in Lutefisk.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 2:22:19 PM
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Mark328
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
A man with a socialist agenda is in no way going to be pro life.
But in answer to the general question posed, yes, the views and opinions of a candidate, any candidate, and all candidates, matter greatly.
Just for clarification, it's a hypothetical question, and I'm just going by a pro-life stance only. The other policies held by Obama would still be the same.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 2:24:47 PM
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tafkam
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Well, the question is moot, since he definitely isn't pro-life, so it's pretty much a useless thread....
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"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 2:25:14 PM
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lightshineon
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Yes, I would have like the oppurtunity to vote for the first black president.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 2:25:24 PM
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P31W
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Homosexuality and sex education in elementary schools?
Even if you said "yes". I cannot vote for anyone who does not understand the most basic concept of human life.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 2:26:34 PM
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P31W
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Hey mark,
I have no clue how you voted or what your beliefs are.
But for most of us Pro life people. We put life over money.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 2:27:15 PM
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lightshineon
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I guess the op was maybe saying if Obama were more conservative in his beliefs in general. It would have to line up with the word.
quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
Homosexuality and sex education in elementary schools?
Even if you said "yes". I cannot vote for anyone who does not understand the most basic concept of human life.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 2:30:29 PM
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Mark328
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Well, the question is moot, since he definitely isn't pro-life, so it's pretty much a useless thread....
I wouldn't say it's moot at all. I've read on here in other threads that McCain got the vote from people because of his pro-life stance. I was curious to see if people would've changed their vote if Obama had this stance. If you find it useless, then feel free to move on to other threads. Thanks for your input, though.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 2:35:41 PM
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benelchi
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
What if the roles were reversed, and Obama was pro-life and McCain was pro-choice? Would that have affected who you voted for? And, if so, why?
I'm just asking the question out of curiosity.
Unquestionably this would have made my choice for president far more difficult than it was because there are far more issues than just the issue of life in which I disagree with the views of Obama, but yes, ultimately I believe this one issue would have been enough to sway my vote. The reason I think this would have swayed my vote are that I believe that the prolife view reveals a fundamentally different perspective about God and humanity that would temper the extremes of those other issues to which I do disagree with Obama. And while I do have significant disagreements with Obama's stands on many other issues, most are not as clearly in opposition to God's word as is this one issue.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 2:46:33 PM
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Mark328
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
Hey mark,
I have no clue how you voted or what your beliefs are.
But for most of us Pro life people. We put life over money.
Fair enough, P31W, I can put that out there for you. I did vote for Obama, and these are my reasons why:
1) The circumstances that our country has been under warrant a different direction than what we've had in quite some time. We're dealing with two wars, a credit/housing crisis that has been there for awhile (the stock market crashes of the last 2 months just brought it to everyone's attention).
2) I'm not a fan of the partisan politics game. The fact that Obama has Republican candidates on his list for Cabinet positions shows that perhaps we'll see some balance in the Cabinet.
3) Politically, I'm neither liberal nor conservative, but I sit squarely in the middle. Unfortunately, there are few moderate politicians these days.
4) I like John McCain, but Sarah Palin was a very poor choice of running mate. McCain is more moderate, while Sarah Palin is a chip off the Karl Rove block. I would've gone with McCain if he had Romney as a running mate.
5) As for the abortion issue, I agree that abortion is murder. But overturning Roe vs. Wade won't change things other than make abortion illegal. True reduction of abortion would have to come from other methods, such as making adoptions easier and cheaper (there are many kind-hearted folks out there that can't adopt because they don't have the money to do so.), and for people to stop shaming and alienating a single woman who does get pregnant. Once there are changes like that, then sure, let's overturn Roe vs. Wade at that point.
I hope that clears up some things.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 2:58:47 PM
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P31W
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quote:
5) As for the abortion issue, I agree that abortion is murder. But overturning Roe vs. Wade won't change things other than make abortion illegal.
Making something "illegal" and having a penalty for breaking the laws stops me from doing many things. NONE of my many friends who had abortions would have "considered" having one and facing the death penalty or jail time. NONE of them. I don't know of any doctor who would risk "murder charges" either.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 3:00:59 PM
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stamper_ben
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quote:
5) As for the abortion issue, I agree that abortion is murder. But overturning Roe vs. Wade won't change things other than make abortion illegal. True reduction of abortion would have to come from other methods, such as making adoptions easier and cheaper (there are many kind-hearted folks out there that can't adopt because they don't have the money to do so.), and for people to stop shaming and alienating a single woman who does get pregnant. Once there are changes like that, then sure, let's overturn Roe vs. Wade at that point.
I hope that clears up some things. Clear as mud.
Do you realize that when he appoints (probably two) SC judges that are in favor of RvW that it will take DECADES or longer to overturn that law? And that when he signs the Freedom of Choice Act it will give the "right" to abortion to women all across the country?
People do not know how to look past their wallets and into the long term implications of their vote. The Supreme Court was THE major issue in this election!
Changing hearts and minds is one thing and needs to be done, but at the SAME time the legislation passed and the Constitutional rulings undertaken need to be addressed too.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 3:14:19 PM
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Mark328
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
5) As for the abortion issue, I agree that abortion is murder. But overturning Roe vs. Wade won't change things other than make abortion illegal.
Making something "illegal" and having a penalty for breaking the laws stops me from doing many things. NONE of my many friends who had abortions would have "considered" having one and facing the death penalty or jail time. NONE of them. I don't know of any doctor who would risk "murder charges" either.
You're right, it would stop some people. But let's remember that women had dangerous back-alley abortions prior to Roe vs. Wade, and many died as a result. Overturning Roe vs. Wade at this point without changing adoption laws and the overall culture in our country towards unmarried single pregnant women just wouldn't be wise at this point just yet. There's more to being pro-life than just overturning Roe vs. Wade. Abortion isn't a simple issue where you can just overturn Roe vs. Wade and call it good. There's a LOT more to do than just that.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 3:21:37 PM
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Rockwall
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
What if the roles were reversed, and Obama was pro-life and McCain was pro-choice? Would that have affected who you voted for? And, if so, why?
I'm just asking the question out of curiosity.
That wouldn't matter for some. Obama would still be the black man and that is all that was required for voting for him. We could not atone for the sins of our great-great-great-grandparents who owned slaves if we voted for McCain.
_____________________________
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 3:29:10 PM
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benelchi
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
5) As for the abortion issue, I agree that abortion is murder. But overturning Roe vs. Wade won't change things other than make abortion illegal.
Making something "illegal" and having a penalty for breaking the laws stops me from doing many things. NONE of my many friends who had abortions would have "considered" having one and facing the death penalty or jail time. NONE of them. I don't know of any doctor who would risk "murder charges" either.
You're right, it would stop some people. But let's remember that women had dangerous back-alley abortions prior to Roe vs. Wade, and many died as a result. Overturning Roe vs. Wade at this point without changing adoption laws and the overall culture in our country towards unmarried single pregnant women just wouldn't be wise at this point just yet. There's more to being pro-life than just overturning Roe vs. Wade. Abortion isn't a simple issue where you can just overturn Roe vs. Wade and call it good. There's a LOT more to do than just that.
It is my understanding that a far greater number of women have severe medical complications as a result of legal medical clinic abortions than ever did as a result of back alley abortions. NOTE: I said number and not percentage; yes, it is true that back alley abortions are far more dangerous, but many magnitudes more woman are choosing abortions because it is legal, and the result is that far more woman get hurt physically, emotionally, and psychologically than ever did when it was illegal. If the issue is truly about "protecting" woman then it seems that the legalization of abortion is not the right answer.
Edited to add: Additionally, back alley abortions still exist today. Legalization has reduced them, but it has not eliminated them.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 3:49:14 PM
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His_4_Ever
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
It is my understanding that a far greater number of women have severe medical complications as a result of legal medical clinic abortions than ever did as a result of back alley abortions. NOTE: I said number and not percentage; yes, it is true that back alley abortions are far more dangerous, but many magnitudes more woman are choosing abortions because it is legal, and the result is that far more woman get hurt physically, emotionally, and psychologically than ever did when it was illegal. If the issue is truly about "protecting" woman then it seems that the legalization of abortion is not the right answer.
Edited to add: Additionally, back alley abortions still exist today. Legalization has reduced them, but it has not eliminated them.
Unfortunately we'll never know how many suffered injury or died during back alley abortions since there no statistics to compare them with.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 3:56:19 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
Unfortunately we'll never know how many suffered injury or died during back alley abortions since there no statistics to compare them with.
Actually, we do have a pretty good idea; and we know it wasn't the millions of abortions that are occuring now.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 4:07:26 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
What if the roles were reversed, and Obama was pro-life and McCain was pro-choice? Would that have affected who you voted for? And, if so, why?
I'm just asking the question out of curiosity.
Depends. Would he still be pro-homosexual, anti-Christian and democrat? Even a "pro-life" democrat is pro-abortion because the party is pro-abortion. If you support the party, you support what the party supports.
Just saw your post 6. No way I would vote for a anti-Christian socialist. Never.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 4:15:49 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
You're right, it would stop some people. But let's remember that women had dangerous back-alley abortions prior to Roe vs. Wade, and many died as a result.
a) far fewer that legal "abortions"
b) if someone dies in the process of murdering someone else, why should we care? I see it as justice done.
quote:
Overturning Roe vs. Wade at this point without changing adoption laws and the overall culture in our country towards unmarried single pregnant women just wouldn't be wise at this point just yet. There's more to being pro-life than just overturning Roe vs. Wade. Abortion isn't a simple issue where you can just overturn Roe vs. Wade and call it good. There's a LOT more to do than just that.
But overturning RvW is the essential first step. Abortion is a very simple issue. Does society condone the murder of babies or does it not? Remember that the issue has NEVER nationally been put to a vote. It was forced on us by the black robed tyrants. In most places where it has been voted on it's been rejected. Liberals and abortionists (but I repeat myself) think it's a great idea. The rest of us correctly see it as murder.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 4:59:34 PM
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Mark328
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quote:
b) if someone dies in the process of murdering someone else, why should we care? I see it as justice done.
That attitude right there makes you no better than a pro-choice person.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 6:36:53 PM
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His_4_Ever
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
a) far fewer that legal "abortions"
b) if someone dies in the process of murdering someone else, why should we care? I see it as justice done.
So you would say all these women if they died during an abortion deserved it. You know what's never discussed is the men's responsibility in unplanned pregnancies. A lot of times the men involved, relentlessly pressure the woman to get an abortion. Sometimes the families relentlessly pressure the women to get abortions. So the blame isn't always totally the girl or woman.
How about the case where the parents of a 19 year old who planned to marry her babies father, kidnapped her so they could force her to get an abortion? They however did not succeed, but there are probably more instances when they do. Do these women deserve die too?
You may choose to look at it as black/white, but it isn't always so.
quote:
But overturning RvW is the essential first step. Abortion is a very simple issue. Does society condone the murder of babies or does it not? Remember that the issue has NEVER nationally been put to a vote. It was forced on us by the black robed tyrants. In most places where it has been voted on it's been rejected. Liberals and abortionists (but I repeat myself) think it's a great idea. The rest of us correctly see it as murder.
Abortion is the end solution, we need to concentrate on preventing the source of abortions.(promiscuous sex, pre-martial sex) Outlawing abortion isn't going to stop teens, young women/men from having sex. If we're not doing anything to help our teens, young women/men to make more moral decisions we've accomplished nothing. Maybe, if we looked at the demographics of who has abortions and started there Roe v. Wade wouldn't matter.
WHO HAS ABORTIONS?
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