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What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/28/2008 1:03:26 AM
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MyCatSmokey2006
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I'd like to know what is wrong with those environmentalists. I heard about the man who is being charged with a crime for shooting an endangered black bear which was attacking his family. It seems that he was required to keep the bear on his land because it was an endangered species and it's habitat would be harmed if he did what he wanted with his land. What would those tree-hugging environmentalists have done if the bear had killed the guy? Let the bear off with a warning? I don't think so! They would have shot the bear, even though it was an endangered species, because it was dangerous to human life. Yet it's wrong for a man to shoot it because it attacks his family. This makes no sense at all.
That's not all the environmentalists do. They also tell farmers, homeowners and real estate developers that they cannot use all of their land for growing crops or developments because some endangered species lives on part of it and its habitat needs to be protected. EXCUSE ME! If I were a landowner and they told me this type of trash, I'd tell them to move the endangered life form to a federal preserve, where it would get lifetime protection and let me use my land as I saw fit. After all, I'm a United States Citizen and this is the United States of America! Those environmentalists need to get a life and be concerned with the needs of hungry people or some other worthy need, and leave private landowners alone.
Here is the story about the man with the black bear.
Edited to add link.
< Message edited by MyCatSmokey2006 -- 7/28/2008 1:10:04 AM >
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RE: What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/28/2008 5:52:31 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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Most environmentalism (not all, but most) is actually an outgrowth of guilt. Guilt for being alive. In a gross overreaction to materialism and greed, many "greenies" have the mindset that humans have no right to kill animals... and then turn around and tells us that we evolved through "survival of the fittest". If the second part is actually true, than the man in the story should get rewarded for being more fit to live than the bear.
Adam
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RE: What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/28/2008 8:13:04 AM
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SonInMe1
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Even worse many of these enviromental wackos believe animals are spiritual, worthy of worship and more noble than man.
They don't know animals at all.
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James 4:4
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RE: What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/29/2008 1:50:58 AM
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OneJohn410
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Wow. The bear story is really sad. Now there'll be a formal investigation, and a sampling of the bear's blood, and an expert tracker to flag the dog and bear's paw prints. Some former home owner will turn up and tell how he raised the young bear from a cub as a pet, and that the poor bear was likely just coming inside along with the dog as it saw the gesturing, growling happily to finally have been recognized as a family friend. This guy is going to have to fight really hard to try to prove he didn't just shoot the bear to be done with its distraction on his life.
The story on the flip side... why can't they all just get along?
Can't you just see the beautiful picture... a man and woman sitting out on the back porch, dog lying contentedly between them.
What's that on your back property line? she asks.
Well, that's a bonafide endangered black bear, my love. Don't be getting all excited now, because that bear's got rights.
Get out of here, she says.
No, it's true. See, the back third of my property is an endangered species habitat. See all those honeycomb racks? Well, the bear and I have it all figured out. He farms the honey, then will growl at me when its time to empty the racks of honey and sell it. We enjoy some beer on his hobby. He's one sharp beekeeper. Why, you should see that bear put away the beer! With our earnings on the last collection, we got two 24-packs, and I mean to tell you, that bear was the happiest endangered thing I ever did see. Want me to call him over so you can shake his paw and scratch his head like ol' Yeller here?
Get out of here, she says.
No, really. He's absolutely harmless- I've got no reason or right to shoot him anyhow.
OneJohn410
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RE: What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/29/2008 11:13:57 AM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MyCatSmokey2006
I'd like to know what is wrong with those environmentalists. I heard about the man who is being charged with a crime for shooting an endangered black bear which was attacking his family. It seems that he was required to keep the bear on his land because it was an endangered species and it's habitat would be harmed if he did what he wanted with his land.
The article is sketchy. It did not say the man was "required to keep the bear on his land." You probably meant to point out that endangered species are not bound by man-made property lines, LOL. The charge is a misdemeanor and the man is unlikely to do any jail time unless he has priors.
If people are going to live in areas where wild animals habitat, they are accepting certain risks. They also accept responsibility for obeying the laws about endangered wildlife. The bear saw the dog as a threat. My guess is the man was protecting his dog (an animal, BTW, not his "family"). He and his girlfriend could have gone in the house and been protected.
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RE: What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/29/2008 2:17:46 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Here are more details.
I sounds on the face of it like he was justified in shooting the animal.
Have pigs suddenly developed wings? The man provided a ready food source (the trash, not his dog) and the bear reacted as one would expect a bear to that was being attacked by another animal. The property obviously was not fenced.
Anybody living in an area that bears live would have to be deaf and blind not to know about the dangers of black bears. They will break car windows to get at food.
BTW, this is not about environmentalism. The responsibility to co-exist with wildlife goes back as far as overdevelopment.
From the article:
John Tanksley, 35, shot the 2-year-old male black bear three times with a high-powered rifle about 2 a.m.
He said the bear came into the yard because Tanksley kept garbage in a trash barrel outside and the bear was foraging for food. Tanksley was able to get his dog away from the bear, Goodyear said, but still felt threatened.
He said he was never able to get his dog away from the animal and that the dog chased the bear away twice, once as far as 100 yards, and both times the bear followed the dog back to his house.
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RE: What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/29/2008 3:26:33 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
Have pigs suddenly developed wings? The man provided a ready food source (the trash, not his dog) and the bear reacted as one would expect a bear to that was being attacked by another animal. The property obviously was not fenced.
Anybody living in an area that bears live would have to be deaf and blind not to know about the dangers of black bears. They will break car windows to get at food.
BTW, this is not about environmentalism. The responsibility to co-exist with wildlife goes back as far as overdevelopment.
From the article:
John Tanksley, 35, shot the 2-year-old male black bear three times with a high-powered rifle about 2 a.m.
He said the bear came into the yard because Tanksley kept garbage in a trash barrel outside and the bear was foraging for food. Tanksley was able to get his dog away from the bear, Goodyear said, but still felt threatened.
He said he was never able to get his dog away from the animal and that the dog chased the bear away twice, once as far as 100 yards, and both times the bear followed the dog back to his house.
Well, I live in a state with 30,000 black bears (as opposed to Ohio's 100) and 'food source' for a black bear can be garbage, fifi, the gum inside the mouth of a camper, bird feeders, or anything in your kitchen that smells good.
I have encountered a number of bears (on private property and off), and while I have never felt the inclination to shoot one, I do know that when a bear gears up he can run about 30mph, and so at 100 yds you have about 2 seconds to decide what you are going to do - personally, if I have a gun in my hand, it's a no brainer.
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It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
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RE: What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/29/2008 3:36:34 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
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The American Black bear is only listed as threatened in LA, TX and MS. I don't believe Ohio is even listed as a traditional range for the creature. According to the article, local DNR estimates the entire population in OH as being less than 100, up from 10 as recently as a few years ago. It stands to reason that the sheer rarity of this animal, and lack of local tradition of it's existence where this man lives, that he could not be expected to have the foresight to lock up his garbage, or the expertise to deal with an attack as someone in, say, Maine would have. I think it's over the edge to prosecute the man for reacting like he did to a perceived threat with that information in mind.
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RE: What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/29/2008 5:21:00 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
The American Black bear is only listed as threatened in LA, TX and MS. I don't believe Ohio is even listed as a traditional range for the creature. According to the article, local DNR estimates the entire population in OH as being less than 100, up from 10 as recently as a few years ago. It stands to reason that the sheer rarity of this animal, and lack of local tradition of it's existence where this man lives, that he could not be expected to have the foresight to lock up his garbage, or the expertise to deal with an attack as someone in, say, Maine would have. I think it's over the edge to prosecute the man for reacting like he did to a perceived threat with that information in mind.
Slap him on the wrist, then. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. He certainly had enough foresight to have a "high-powered rifle" handy.
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RE: What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/29/2008 9:30:01 PM
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SonInMe1
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Its a miricle this guy hasn't been charged with a hate crime....seeing it was a...black....bear.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/30/2008 12:27:46 AM
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Zhi
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Anybody who leaves trash in a garbage bin in bear country is kind of being dumb.
We had a black bear break the 2x4 that was barred across our trash shed door (tuff shed) in half and tear the doors half off to get at trash once. It's generally a good idea to try to avoid annoying them or tempting them with easy-to-get-to foraging. Even if they are rare. They were rare where we lived too, I only ever saw one in two years of living there, but if you tempt them and they get easy food, they get a lot less rare in a hurry.
That being said, if the black bear charged him, shooting it was probably necessary. Getting two people indoors takes a while and bears are pretty fast (and if they're really mad, they won't find a door that isn't solid steel all that troublesome an obstacle, frankly.)
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RE: What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/30/2008 7:18:36 AM
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iluvatar
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To those who know about bears - 165 lb doesn't sound all that big to me - that's about the size of a really big dog. Was this still a cub?
-Dan.
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RE: What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/30/2008 10:47:09 AM
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endless_night
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There is something wrong in this world, when we are more concern about an animals then we are with humans.
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Psalms 111:10
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RE: What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/30/2008 11:05:42 AM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: endless_night
There is something wrong in this world, when we are more concern about an animals then we are with humans.
Not feeding the bears IS because of concern about humans.
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RE: What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/30/2008 11:07:09 AM
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Jhud
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quote:
Not feeding the bears IS because of concern about humans.
Yes, I want to know when you are going to stop blaming the victim and start demanding more responsibility from the bears?
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It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/30/2008 11:09:45 AM
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HighPlainsDrifter
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quote:
What does "keeping a bear habitat" mean?
Keeping lead out of their diet?
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RE: What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/30/2008 5:49:18 PM
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endless_night
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: endless_night
There is something wrong in this world, when we are more concern about an animals then we are with humans.
Not feeding the bears IS because of concern about humans.
I'm talking about the fact that the man got charged because he shot the bear.
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The Fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments. His praises endures forever.
Psalms 111:10
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RE: What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/30/2008 6:57:58 PM
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jkdjr25
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quote:
ORIGINAL: endless_night
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: endless_night
There is something wrong in this world, when we are more concern about an animals then we are with humans.
Not feeding the bears IS because of concern about humans.
I'm talking about the fact that the man got charged because he shot the bear.
He got charged because he did break the law. He'll not likely do time if he requests a jury trial but the fact remains he broke the law. There were things he could have done to prevent the situation, most importantly having a properly fenced home and keeping the garbage can in his garage until trash day. I don't think a bear can break down a metal door like that. Common sense could have prevented this entirely.
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RE: What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/30/2008 7:33:24 PM
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iluvatar
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What kind of black bears are endangered? I thought when people went bear hunting in the eastern US it was for black bear...
-Dan.
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Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/30/2008 7:42:24 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
What kind of black bears are endangered? I thought when people went bear hunting in the eastern US it was for black bear...
I don't think black bears are generally 'endangered', it may be that they only have that status in Ohio. Also, I think that is the only bear in the Eastern US, and the only bear I know of that can be hunted in the lower 48.
Interestingly, I think the effect of charging the man this way would be to encourage otherwise law-abiding citizens to simply dispose of dead bears that threatened them rather than reporting it to the authorities. And that would be an unfortunate consequence.
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It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/30/2008 7:50:59 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
What kind of black bears are endangered? I thought when people went bear hunting in the eastern US it was for black bear...
I don't think black bears are generally 'endangered', it may be that they only have that status in Ohio. Also, I think that is the only bear in the Eastern US, and the only bear I know of that can be hunted in the lower 48.
Interestingly, I think the effect of charging the man this way would be to encourage otherwise law-abiding citizens to simply dispose of dead bears that threatened them rather than reporting it to the authorities. And that would be an unfortunate consequence.
Bad idea. The shooter would not be able to resist telling about it. Probably would put it on YouTube. People can't keep secrets.
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RE: What is wrong with those environmentalists? - 7/30/2008 7:55:04 PM
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Dancre
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My 12 year old nephew is into environmental stuff. He told me that if I use plastic bags, then the bags suck in polution, float up to the North Pole, find a polar bear and dump all the polution over the bear, thus killing it. OI!!!  So now I use cloth bags to save the polar bears. OI!!!
quote:
ORIGINAL: MyCatSmokey2006
I'd like to know what is wrong with those environmentalists. I heard about the man who is being charged with a crime for shooting an endangered black bear which was attacking his family. It seems that he was required to keep the bear on his land because it was an endangered species and it's habitat would be harmed if he did what he wanted with his land. What would those tree-hugging environmentalists have done if the bear had killed the guy? Let the bear off with a warning? I don't think so! They would have shot the bear, even though it was an endangered species, because it was dangerous to human life. Yet it's wrong for a man to shoot it because it attacks his family. This makes no sense at all.
That's not all the environmentalists do. They also tell farmers, homeowners and real estate developers that they cannot use all of their land for growing crops or developments because some endangered species lives on part of it and its habitat needs to be protected. EXCUSE ME! If I were a landowner and they told me this type of trash, I'd tell them to move the endangered life form to a federal preserve, where it would get lifetime protection and let me use my land as I saw fit. After all, I'm a United States Citizen and this is the United States of America! Those environmentalists need to get a life and be concerned with the needs of hungry people or some other worthy need, and leave private landowners alone.
Here is the story about the man with the black bear.
Edited to add link.
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