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darkness and doubt - 11/20/2008 11:44:05 AM
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Rick4Him
Posts: 92
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All,
I have been wondering whether to post this comment or not, but I must because I'm experiencing a little depression lately and I want to know if I'm not alone here.
I'm currently enrolled in an online program to earn a Masters Degree in Biblical Studies (Apologetics). I've had to read many atheist and agnostic writings along with all sorts of false views from within the church. I wrote a paper on the Jesus Seminar after doing a lot of research. All this has begun to put questions in my mind as to the truth of our faith. The studies I do are great because they have the Biblical defense to all these false views, but I was never aware of how many different ways our faith is attacked.
I'm saved and trust in what the Bible says, but all the points of view from outside the faith tend to cloud my thinking. I also believe Satan uses this info to damage my walk with Christ. I have noticed I'm depressed a lot lately and I can only think it is from these false views I've been reading about. I don't want to say I doubt my salvation, because I don't. But I don't have the once strong faith I once had. Has anyone here experienced something similar? Thanks
Rick
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RE: darkness and doubt - 11/20/2008 1:51:05 PM
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mvic
Posts: 1794
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You'll find many Christians have at one time or another faced doubts about their Faith. This is good in moderation, because it makes people question what they believe, and by finding answers it can strengthen their Faith.
Of course, too much doubt is dangerous, as it helps the devil to lead us astray.
The best way to fight one's doubts and fears is through prayer. Say to God, in your own words, how you feel, what your doubts are, and ask Him for help to strengthen your Faith and to drive the devil away.
"I believe, Lord; help my unbelief." Mark 9:24.
_____________________________
Visit http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
My Book My Blog
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RE: darkness and doubt - 11/20/2008 2:34:50 PM
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InHisService9901
Posts: 36
Joined: 11/15/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rick4Him
All,
I have been wondering whether to post this comment or not, but I must because I'm experiencing a little depression lately and I want to know if I'm not alone here.
I'm currently enrolled in an online program to earn a Masters Degree in Biblical Studies (Apologetics). I've had to read many atheist and agnostic writings along with all sorts of false views from within the church. I wrote a paper on the Jesus Seminar after doing a lot of research. All this has begun to put questions in my mind as to the truth of our faith. The studies I do are great because they have the Biblical defense to all these false views, but I was never aware of how many different ways our faith is attacked.
I'm saved and trust in what the Bible says, but all the points of view from outside the faith tend to cloud my thinking. I also believe Satan uses this info to damage my walk with Christ. I have noticed I'm depressed a lot lately and I can only think it is from these false views I've been reading about. I don't want to say I doubt my salvation, because I don't. But I don't have the once strong faith I once had. Has anyone here experienced something similar? Thanks
Rick
Brother let me say this...all of these false teachings that you read , you know are not of God..They are the lies of satan ,given to man to cause him to doubt God..
All we need do is begin with the garden of Eden
what did satan tell Eve...Hey you arent going to die
well what did the Lord say
You see satan has been calling God a liar and His Word a lie since the Garden of Eden and perhaps in heaven when he and his angels rebelled against the Lord
But we do know it did happen in the garden of Eden
Lets go to the Book of Galations
The Church let in false teachers
Well before all was said and done, the church had gone from grace to works
Do u remember what the Apostle Paul told them
He said I am afraid of you
you see any chance the devil gets to make us doubt God He will
and as for all of these false teachings in seminar school that you are required to study can cause doubt because satan will MOST HAPPILY USE THAT FOR HIS PURPOSE
HE CANT WAIT
HEY IF I CAN GET U TO DOUBT GOD, I GOT CHA!
Just like he got adam and eve
I know of a Pastor who had this desire to know about the islamic faith
well he found some muslims that he liked and had them over at his home and as the months went by, they came over more often and planted their seeds of doubt into that man of God
when all was said and done
that Pastor DENOUNCED the Lord Jesus Christ knelt before a false god pledging his alegience
terrible things begin to happen to that man after that
He lost his church, his wife , his children
he lost everything
but most importantly HE LOST THE LORD
Preacher what do u mean?
lets go to the Word
Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Hbr 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Hbr 10:31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
I spoke to this poor soul and it was like talking to the devil himself
as a matter of fact it was like the devil was doing the talking because this was what was said to me a servant of the Lord
HE IS MINE NOW, YOU CANNOT HELP HIM
And chills ran up my body
and still do as I think about it now
I believe that man is hell bound and nothing more can be done for him
That was the last time I talked with him
sad isnt it
costly isnt it
to dabble in doctrines of devils, and before u know it the devil has u
speaking for myself as a Preacher, I try to know as little as possible about false doctrines
one thing, what and who are they trusting in for salvation
thats my study
and thts where I leave it
because I do not want to give the devil an inch of room to cause me in anyway to doubt my God..
Brother what is the cure for doubt?
God's Holy Word
Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God
Sanctify(cleanse ) them thru Thy Word, Thy Word is truth
The Word is a Light unto my path and a Lamp unto my feet
u want to stay on the straight and narrow
devour the Word and try your best to stay out of false teachings
for the sake of your own soul, this preacher gives u warning
and im not trying to be mean or condescending,just truthful as I know how to be my brother and I will be in prayer for you
God bless you and keep you brother
_____________________________
In Christ' Service
Evangelist Smith
Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ
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RE: darkness and doubt - 11/20/2008 2:56:55 PM
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InHisService9901
Posts: 36
Joined: 11/15/2008
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Brother here are some scriptures that I hope will be a blessing and help to you
1Th 5:12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;
1Th 5:13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. [And] be at peace among yourselves.
1Th 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all [men].
1Th 5:15 See that none render evil for evil unto any [man]; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all [men].
1Th 5:16 Rejoice evermore.
1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
1Th 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
1Th 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.
1Th 5:20 Despise not prophesyings.
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
and this last one
Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.
I dont want to give that stinking devil an inch ,let alone open the door and invite him in with false teachings..stinking devil..thats how I feel about him...
God bless you brother
_____________________________
In Christ' Service
Evangelist Smith
Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ
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RE: darkness and doubt - 11/20/2008 4:50:12 PM
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Rick4Him
Posts: 92
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Thanks for the replies and the advice. I am a little perplexed at what to do, for I truly believe I was called into this ministry (apologetics), and I've loved it so far. I only started getting depressed lately and I feel it is from Satan. I don't know if it is Satan wanting me to surrender from my call or if it is the junk I'm reading. I understand the reply about not reading the false views, but that is what is required for Apologetics. I believe in OSAS, so I don't feel I can lose my salvation, but Satan sure is throwing darts at my mind. The biggest problems I've having is from reading the writings form the Jesus Seminar Fellows. I've put this part of my studies behind and have been focusing on Biblical and Theological studies, but the depression or darkness seems not to be fading away.
Please pray for me, thanks!
Rick
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RE: darkness and doubt - 11/20/2008 5:37:38 PM
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jn1010lf
Posts: 349
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Hello Rick4Him
I'm a little put out that you would be assinged atheistic and cult reading. Don't they know that Eve was led away by a mere suggestion of untruth?
Have you heard how bank tellers are trained to spot counterfeit money? They learn the feel, smell and details of patterns from real money. Once a phony touches their fingers they and immeiatelly tell it.
So, the way to spot a phony is to know the real Jesus Christ so well that your spirit immediatally senses that it's phoney.
So, I would drop all for a while and redigest the book of St John. Put that into your spirit and claim it as the only truth. It's not our salvation we have to believe in it the person Jesus Christ, the anointed one, the Son of God, the author and finisher of our faith, the first born from the dead, etc. that we have to not only believe in but have to know.
Then you might polish off your study with the book of Colossians.
Now, if your church gest antsy because you get too much of Jesus, you might examine whether or not you should stay with them.
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RE: darkness and doubt - 11/20/2008 8:01:25 PM
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InHisService9901
Posts: 36
Joined: 11/15/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rick4Him
Thanks for the replies and the advice. I am a little perplexed at what to do, for I truly believe I was called into this ministry (apologetics), and I've loved it so far. I only started getting depressed lately and I feel it is from Satan. I don't know if it is Satan wanting me to surrender from my call or if it is the junk I'm reading. I understand the reply about not reading the false views, but that is what is required for Apologetics. I believe in OSAS, so I don't feel I can lose my salvation, but Satan sure is throwing darts at my mind. The biggest problems I've having is from reading the writings form the Jesus Seminar Fellows. I've put this part of my studies behind and have been focusing on Biblical and Theological studies, but the depression or darkness seems not to be fading away.
Please pray for me, thanks!
Rick
Brother this caught my eye and I have a question for you..
you said that you feel that God called u into the Ministry of Apologetics
And this kind of Ministry would call for you to know all the beliefs of other religions? In other words to argue the belief of Christianity?
If im wrong please correct me..
Now if this is right, lets compare it to the work of the Disciples and the Lord's prophets in the old test.
I cant recall anywhere in the Word of God that He told His servants to go learn the pagan ways so that they could better teach His ways to them.
So im lost with this frame of thinking.
The Lord said go preach the Gospel to every creature,
Go preach repentance
Now I dont recall the Lord comissioning us to go and learn the ways of the wicked that we could better teach them about Him.
im just trying to understand this calling that you feel you have.
God bless
_____________________________
In Christ' Service
Evangelist Smith
Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ
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RE: darkness and doubt - 11/20/2008 8:43:24 PM
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Rick4Him
Posts: 92
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jn1010lf
Hello Rick4Him
I'm a little put out that you would be assinged atheistic and cult reading. Don't they know that Eve was led away by a mere suggestion of untruth?
Have you heard how bank tellers are trained to spot counterfeit money? They learn the feel, smell and details of patterns from real money. Once a phony touches their fingers they and immeiatelly tell it.
So, the way to spot a phony is to know the real Jesus Christ so well that your spirit immediatally senses that it's phoney.
So, I would drop all for a while and redigest the book of St John. Put that into your spirit and claim it as the only truth. It's not our salvation we have to believe in it the person Jesus Christ, the anointed one, the Son of God, the author and finisher of our faith, the first born from the dead, etc. that we have to not only believe in but have to know.
Then you might polish off your study with the book of Colossians.
Now, if your church gest antsy because you get too much of Jesus, you might examine whether or not you should stay with them.
jn,
Yes this is good advice and I do rely upon scripture as my foundation, I feel I do know the Bible well enough to spot a counterfeit. I truly believe this is why I was led into this ministry. I watched a special on TV about 8 years ago with Peter Jennings called (the search for the real Jesus) I believe. Well it angered me so much that I truly felt the Holy Spirit drawing me into defending against such false teachings. I found a good apologetic school and this is what apologists do, they must be able to defend the faith with proper scriptural responses to the false claims of those in error. We also need to how they believe so we can properly examine their claims with scripture.
I must admit all of the teachings are scripture based and not really a deep delve into their beliefs. But I truly read a lot of the Jesus Seminar stuff to be able to respond to it in my paper. I felt this was the correct way of defending the Gospel.
I'll bet there are many Preachers and Teachers who read tis that do the same by studying about Mormonism and Jehovah Witnesses to be able to lead them to the truth. I felt very strong in my faith when I started this degree over 2 years ago and I still do. I just also feel a real darkness over me and it seems Satan is constantly throwing questions in my mind to get me to doubt. I still hunger for His word and still surrender my all to Jesus in whom I trust with my eternal salvation.
I must also say, if we are to refrain from study about false teachings because we should be afraid of being drawn into their beliefs then doesn't that seem weak minded? I feel I'm strong in my faith, but Satan is really working harder on me know than he ever did in the past.
Rick
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RE: darkness and doubt - 11/20/2008 11:13:21 PM
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pbaribeault
Posts: 1093
Joined: 4/29/2005
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If you are going to study really smart philosophical, logical, systematic attacks on Christianity, I think you need to get into that side of Christian thought.
Mainstream Christian thought is pretty basic, and without a deep knowledge of Scripture anybody can make your mind dance on those, "I guess that makes sense... sort of... even though it's wrong... but I don't quite know why or where it's wrong... but the Bible says the opposite... so am I just a blind dogmatic idiot that believes in revelation no matter what?" Kind of puppet strings.
Middle school students don't argue well with university professors, even if the professor is proving that the moon is made from green cheese -- he can still make the truth turn flips and the student who knows what he's talking about simply can't find his way through the argument. (I'm not implying that you are in middle school, I'm saying that most mainstream general theological understandings, while correct, are understood and talked about at an intellectual level that most middle-schoolers could follow.)
There is deeper theology (still the same truth, just more complex and interconnected and dipping into foundational truths that don't come out well in regular English and ordinary logic) that can be understood by a mind that applies itself well. God is a God of truth -- both simple and deep... and everything in His Word is so rich and wonderful, as only true revelation can be. He's smarter that your professor-opponents, even if you are not, and you can (and should) "Believe in revelation no matter what" (even if you can't argue your way out of the intellectual maze that these opponents have set out).
But if you want to be a "Master" of Apologetics, you're going to need some deep philosophical "professor" type Christian writers to be your opposing-force in your study of our opponents... because our opponents are supported by our adversary, and they're not going to pull any punches.
I'd also recommend original languages. Nothing opens your eyes to the width and depth of God's revelation like (in my opinion) happens when you actually become familiar with the wide implications of the semantic domains of the words in Hebrew. There are concepts in the OT that English has never dreamed up a word big enough to encompass. Almost every Hebrew word actually contains, in itself, it's own concrete illustration... it's wild, and absolutely worthwhile. (Greek is worthwhile too, but it mostly helps with getting precise meaning out of passages, and so getting more accurate interpretations, which is not such a relevant thing to the study of Apologetics... Well, I guess it would be pretty relevant though, with the 'Jesus Seminar' and other scripture twisters... both would be best.)
PS - If your depression is recent, may I ask if you live in a place where oncoming winter means less natural sun light and/or more time spent indoors, or if your studies are keeping you out of natural light? If so, you might do some research on seasonal depression based on lack of sunlight. It's really common where I am (Canada), it's a physical/chemical/metabolism thing (not hokey-pokey) and it effects many more people than probably know it.
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RE: darkness and doubt - 11/21/2008 7:57:52 AM
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InHisService9901
Posts: 36
Joined: 11/15/2008
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Brother you have been on my mind for the past several hours and I feel I need to talk to you a min..
Now you say you are calling into a Agnostic Ministry
when I see the word agonostic I cringe
Agnostic = Darkness
so you are saying u are called of God into a dark ministry to bring the light to those that are lost ?
Hear me out if you would brother,please.
Now brother I am NO expert in Theology
and what I have been taught has been by the Lord
He is my teacher and guide
And I have read His Word thru more than once and have studied God's Word for quite a few years, but like I said I wasnt trained in a college seminar and I will be the first one to tell you, I dont know everything
I dont and never would claim such as this
But from what I have read in God's Holy Word, I can say this
NOT ONCE have I seen where God called any of His Servants to study the ways and beliefs of the lost in order to do His Work..
Not once have I seen this .
But I have seen this and please once again bear with me
I have seen where God warned His people to stay away from doctrines of devils
I have seen where God told them that they would begin to believe this wickedness if they continued and they were turn their backs on Him and serve other gods
and im sure u know what people I am speaking of
The Israelites
Time and time again God warned them to stay away from the pagans and heathens , and time and time again they rebelled against the Lord God and walked in their own ways, and served their gods
countless times they did this and countless times God would warn them ,
stay away frm these people, u will start beliving and doing as they do, and they would continue to disobey the Lord God and go mingle with these lost souls and adapt their wicked ways and turn their backs once again on the Lord God.
Now lets go from a group of people to a specific person
King Solomon
God warned Solomon because he had married all of these wives who worshiped and served false gods and the Lord warned Solomon but Solomon rebelled against the Lord and followed after the beliefs of these lost souls and turned His back on the Living God to serve false gods
God gives us these truths in His Word that we can learn frm His Word and know what is pleasing to Him and what is not pleasing to Him
what His way is and not what His way is
And like I stated in an earlier post I see no where in God's Word where God has comissioned any of His Servants to go and study darkness to be equipted to Proclaim His Word
I cannot find that in God's Word
I cannot find where God gives any servant of His a Ministry that is associated with darkness
I have yet to see that in God's Word
I have yet to see in God's Word where darkness has fellowship with light
for the Word of God declares that darkness has no fellowship with light
we are called to proclaim the light
we are not called to debate and argue the Word of God
we are called to PREACH THE GOSPEL TO EVERY CREATURE
To PREACH REPENTANCE IN HIS NAME
We are instructed to study the Word of God to be approved unto Him, rightly dividing the Word of Truth
we dont need any other book to preach truth
we dont need any other book to teach truth
we have the ONLY BOOK WE NEED TO DO THE WORK OF THE LORD AND THAT IS HIS HOLY UNFAILING WORD
HIS WORD
NOT THE DEVIL'S WORD
GOD'S WORD
SHOUT IT FROM THE HOUSETOPS
PROCLAIM IT THAT SOULS MIGHT BE SAVED
Based on the Word of Almighty God there is no other Gospel than tht of Jesus Christ , his death and resurrection
Nowhere can I find the Lord's hand in a ministry that joins darkness with light
Nowhere and if u find scripture to back that up , please please show it to me
show me where the Lord has instructed His servants to study the ways of the wicked to do His work
I need the scripture to back up what you are saying
agnostic ministry??
Brother im here to tell u by the Word of Almighty God that darkness has no place with light
Im here to tell you by the Word of God that you cannot equipt yourself to serve a Righteous Holy God by studying doctrines of devils
you cannot
I cannot
nor can anyone else
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine;
but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers,
having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth,
and shall be turned unto fables.
2Ti 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
Brother if you would I want u to read this story of the Apostle Paul once again as he gave witness to king aggripa of the Lord Jesus Christ
please take ur time in reading it so u will not miss one thing
please
Act 26:13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.
Act 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? [it is] hard for thee to kick against the ****s.
Act 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
Act 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
Act 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and [from] the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
Act 26:18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Act 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Act 26:21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill [me].
Act 26:22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
Act 26:23 That Christ should suffer, [and] that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.
Act 26:24 And as he thus spake for himself, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad.
Act 26:25 But he said, I am not mad, most noble Festus; but speak forth the words of truth and soberness.
Act 26:26 For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him; for this thing was not done in a corner.
Act 26:27 King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest.
Act 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
Act 26:29 And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds.
God bless you brother and I will continue in prayer for you as the Lord leads
_____________________________
In Christ' Service
Evangelist Smith
Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ
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RE: darkness and doubt - 11/21/2008 9:30:15 AM
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Rick4Him
Posts: 92
Joined: 4/11/2005
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pb,
Thanks for the reply and I do believe I may also be depressed due to my twin sister passing about 3 years ago. I was a sudden thing and I have had difficulty in missing her. She was saved prior to death, but I still miss her on this side of eternity. But I must think my depression is coming from the readings from the Jesus Seminar.
To InHis,
Thanks also for you concern. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not in an agnostic ministry or a ministry that studies darkness. Any apologetic study will concern itself with the false claims of those in opposition to the truth. We find out their falseness and study scripture to counter it with God's word. We truly study scripture much more than the teachings of the enemy. When Jehovah Witnesses teach that Jesus wasn't God in the flesh, we don't dive into the JW literature, we dive into God's word to defend it against their false claim. I feel you think I'm sitting around reading false doctrine all day long. I don't do this brother. And I hope I didn't lead you to beleive that in my first post. Rarely do I read anything other than the Bible or solid theology or apologetic works. I read a lot from John MacArthur, Gary Habermas, John Piper, RC Sproul, Hank Hanagraff and many others. I had an asignment to write a paper on the Jesus Seminar so I believed I needed to know what they believed to best be able to counter it with the truth. Reading this stuff is when I experienced the darkness and still do.
How did the Apostle Paul know the Galatians were turning to a different Gospel? How did the Jude know men had crept into the church and taught falsely? They knew the Gospel and they also must have noticed what the false teachers were teaching was against scripture. Today there are many in churches throughout the world who teach falsely and we as apologists must know the difference to be able to keep others from falling for the falseness. You see, I'm not delving into falseness, I'm just standing up for the truth when false teachings come along. I don't feel many in the church today see this turn from the true Gospel and someone needs to take a bold stance for the truth. This is where I believe apologetics comes in. I'm not doing this study to enrich myself, I'm doing this because I feel many are being led astray in subtle ways in many churches and I feel God wants me to be that apologist who helps those led astray.
I do understand you statements and I agree there is no scripture, as far as I know that tells us to study false teaching to be able to oppose it. But there also is no word "Trinity" in the bible, but I'll bet you believe in it.
Thanks for your concern and prayers. I'm finished with the Jesus Seminar paper and am looking to God's word for incouragement.
Rick
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