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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/24/2008 11:14:54 AM
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letusreason
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Maybe E-Harmony should take a lesson from Ford Motor Comp, and their overtly specious ad campaign in gay magazines.
Have any businesses ever show profitability reaching out to homosexuals?
You would think that reaching out to more , gets you more business etc... Is it so in this case?
_____________________________
Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives.
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/24/2008 12:08:03 PM
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Mark328
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Here's my question - why do the gay protestors insist that they are "just like the rest of us", and then protest in gaudy leather outfits that leave nothing to the imagination, or dress like transvestite nuns? I don't see "the rest of us" protesting in such things...
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/24/2008 12:45:31 PM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
Maybe E-Harmony should take a lesson from Ford Motor Comp, and their overtly specious ad campaign in gay magazines.
Have any businesses ever show profitability reaching out to homosexuals?
You would think that reaching out to more , gets you more business etc... Is it so in this case?
I think that eharmony's motive is financial, but not expecting income from homosexuals, as there is too many free sites for homosexuals to find someone to sin with.
The financial motive is to avoid a long and costly court battle to fend off the suit that was filed against them. The homosexual community would certainly take it all the way to the Supreme Court as a way of forcing their agenda.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/24/2008 1:19:03 PM
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TheosCentric
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
Maybe E-Harmony should take a lesson from Ford Motor Comp, and their overtly specious ad campaign in gay magazines.
Have any businesses ever show profitability reaching out to homosexuals?
You would think that reaching out to more , gets you more business etc... Is it so in this case?
I think that eharmony's motive is financial, but not expecting income from homosexuals, as there is too many free sites for homosexuals to find someone to sin with.
The financial motive is to avoid a long and costly court battle to fend off the suit that was filed against them. The homosexual community would certainly take it all the way to the Supreme Court as a way of forcing their agenda.
Thanks
RC
They've already forced a photographer to pay a fine in New Mexico for refusal to go against his beliefs. And they successfully sued a Methodist church in New Jersey for not allowing a gay ceremony.
There will be something to end up in the Supreme Court, I'm sure. Be aware that as a minister, you're probably be a target if it comes down to gay marriage being allowed nationwide. As an agent of the state in performing marriages, you would be forced to comply. A friend of mine who is licensed has said that he would sooner give up his license to marry than perform a gay marriage.
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"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/24/2008 1:32:20 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7595
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
They've already forced a photographer to pay a fine in New Mexico for refusal to go against his beliefs. And they successfully sued a Methodist church in New Jersey for not allowing a gay ceremony.
There will be something to end up in the Supreme Court, I'm sure. Be aware that as a minister, you're probably be a target if it comes down to gay marriage being allowed nationwide. As an agent of the state in performing marriages, you would be forced to comply. A friend of mine who is licensed has said that he would sooner give up his license to marry than perform a gay marriage.
I think this is a very important and pertinent point that needs to be highlighted.
It is often argued by homosexuals and their allies that homosexual marriage will have 'no effect' on the lives outside those of homosexuals themselves; that it will not impinge on heterosexual marriage - and yet here, immediately, before gay marriage has even become the law of the land, we see how advocates for homosexual marriage will specifically modify organizations and intitutions devoted to supporting heterosexual marriage.
I am no fan of eHarmony, but as these sort of organizations go, it was particularly devoted to bringing people together into strong ongoing marriages, not simply hooking them up. And now they have to devote time, resources, and modify their focus to accomadate the radical facist homosexual agenda.
Let me be clear - homosexual advocates are lying to us, they will say anything, do anything, disregard every democratic and traditional institution to advance their beliefs and lifestyle - and next to abortion, anyone who cares about our culture and preserving our system of government should oppose at every opportunity any attempt by these folks to undermine our civilization.
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Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/24/2008 1:38:50 PM
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TheosCentric
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Which is exactly my point. Once homosexual marriage is normalized, they start going after the churches because they want a "traditional" ceremony. The churches that refuse will be "guilty" of discrimination and fined. Brings up separation of church and state, don't you think?
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/24/2008 1:50:47 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
Which is exactly my point. Once homosexual marriage is normalized, they start going after the churches because they want a "traditional" ceremony. The churches that refuse will be "guilty" of discrimination and fined. Brings up separation of church and state, don't you think?
For the homosexual lobby 'separation of church and state' goes one way.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/24/2008 6:12:12 PM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
They've already forced a photographer to pay a fine in New Mexico for refusal to go against his beliefs. And they successfully sued a Methodist church in New Jersey for not allowing a gay ceremony.
There will be something to end up in the Supreme Court, I'm sure. Be aware that as a minister, you're probably be a target if it comes down to gay marriage being allowed nationwide. As an agent of the state in performing marriages, you would be forced to comply. A friend of mine who is licensed has said that he would sooner give up his license to marry than perform a gay marriage.
That well be a concern for many a Pastor, but it would be hard to prove I am being prejudice if I refuse to marry someone, for I only marry about 30 pecent of the folks that ask me.
The couples just do not make the cut during 40 hours of counsel and vetting that I require.
Now for the Pastors that marry anyone who asks; it may well become a problem.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/24/2008 8:48:54 PM
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SlipperyWhenWet
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
Which is exactly my point. Once homosexual marriage is normalized, they start going after the churches because they want a "traditional" ceremony. The churches that refuse will be "guilty" of discrimination and fined.
What I find very sad is when churchs start marrying homosexuals. It's no wonder the secular world thinks so little of Christians when we can't even get 'our own' to abide by God's Word.
Swedish Lutheran Church gives green light to gay weddings
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Todd
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/24/2008 8:59:56 PM
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SlipperyWhenWet
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I actually found some encouraging news today in regards to marriage (well, kind of). The Supreme Court of Georgia (nope, not Christians) has started posting billboards such as these:
[img]http://www.getmarriedstaymarried.org/images/billboard1.jpg[/img]
They have a web site: http://www.getmarriedstaymarried.org/
Apparently someone in Georgia, other than 'those biggoted religious people', realizes the importance of marriage as it's currently defined and realizes it's already in trouble w/o the help of same-sex marriages. Hopefully other states will adopt similar programs to inform people of how important marriage is to society and that it's a lot more than just 'two people who love each other'.
_____________________________
Sincerely,
Todd
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/25/2008 2:58:03 AM
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tomhillbilly
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I felt i had some interesting insights and started a thread called DOES HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGE THREATEN RELIGIOUS FREEDOM? but they closed it and told me to come here.
I have been part of many discussions regarding this question in the livechat, and with several people of differing beliefs in my personal life as well. Christians seem to be very worried that if homosexual marriage becomes legal in the united states that pastors will be forced to marry homosexuals or face penalties or even forced to close down instead of violating their religious principles.
Now in america we have what is known as the non-discrimination-equal opportunity employment act. This basically prohibits employers from discriminating on the basis of race,sex,color,religion,national origin and SEXUAL ORIENTATION.
It would seem that a strong precedant has already been set in america that churches are exempt from this law on account of religious freedom/seperation of church of state.I have never heard of a case where a church was forced to hire a homosexual. If anyone else has or i am wrong on any of this please share.
It would also be interesting for those in other countries to explain the situation regarding these issues as well
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/25/2008 3:56:33 AM
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aslouie
Posts: 710
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From: Los Angeles, CA.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
Don't know if any of you have read this article yet, but it seems that the passage of Proposition 8 in California is causing some schism in Hollywood:
http://www.upi.com/Entertainment_News/2008/11/23/Hollywood_divided_over_Proposition_8/UPI-59681227459509/
This almost reminds me of that debate on The O' Reilly Factor (with Laura Ingraham substituting), there's ample discussions/comparisons between what's going on in much of the Golden State--Hollywood not excluding, and 1950's McCarthyism, kind of like when that Bay Area theater director (?) was forced to resign upon having his name (ironically worded) outted as a supporter for Prop 8... and that's before one gets into the individual names of Prop 8 contributors, who worked in The El Coyote, El Pollo Loco restaurant chains, and thus are given the unenviable position to have their employers/co-workers take the communal blame for their political positions...
I guess that's why I'm with Ingraham when she says that next time Hollywood (as well as their poseur "indie," art house film subsidiaries) were to release another period drama on those infamous, communist witch hunts, a la Guilty By Suspicion, Good Night Good Luck, then we'll have to boycott these politically-sermonizing efforts as a statement against Leftist chic, Hollywood hypocrisy! 
_____________________________
With fame I became more and more stupid, which of course is a very common phenomenon.
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That's hot.
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/25/2008 8:53:50 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5782
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tomhillbilly
I felt i had some interesting insights and started a thread called DOES HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGE THREATEN RELIGIOUS FREEDOM? but they closed it and told me to come here.
I have been part of many discussions regarding this question in the livechat, and with several people of differing beliefs in my personal life as well. Christians seem to be very worried that if homosexual marriage becomes legal in the united states that pastors will be forced to marry homosexuals or face penalties or even forced to close down instead of violating their religious principles.
Now in america we have what is known as the non-discrimination-equal opportunity employment act. This basically prohibits employers from discriminating on the basis of race,sex,color,religion,national origin and SEXUAL ORIENTATION.
It would seem that a strong precedant has already been set in america that churches are exempt from this law on account of religious freedom/seperation of church of state.I have never heard of a case where a church was forced to hire a homosexual. If anyone else has or i am wrong on any of this please share.
It would also be interesting for those in other countries to explain the situation regarding these issues as well
Tomhillbilly,
The latest flap about gay marriage just reinforces in me the feeling that yes gay marriage does in conjuction with some other things that are going on; threaten religious freedom.
Combining the continuing trend of legalizing what a religion considers to be moral failure and sin, combined with the "Hate Speech" ligislations that keep popping us should definately be a red flag.
I can see the day when religious free speech (speaking out against Biblically defined sin) will become fair game for civil suits and even criminal prosecution.
And that will be a sad day.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/25/2008 10:24:43 AM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4409
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tomhillbilly
I felt i had some interesting insights and started a thread called DOES HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGE THREATEN RELIGIOUS FREEDOM? but they closed it and told me to come here.
I have been part of many discussions regarding this question in the livechat, and with several people of differing beliefs in my personal life as well. Christians seem to be very worried that if homosexual marriage becomes legal in the united states that pastors will be forced to marry homosexuals or face penalties or even forced to close down instead of violating their religious principles.
Now in america we have what is known as the non-discrimination-equal opportunity employment act. This basically prohibits employers from discriminating on the basis of race,sex,color,religion,national origin and SEXUAL ORIENTATION.
It would seem that a strong precedant has already been set in america that churches are exempt from this law on account of religious freedom/seperation of church of state.I have never heard of a case where a church was forced to hire a homosexual. If anyone else has or i am wrong on any of this please share.
It would also be interesting for those in other countries to explain the situation regarding these issues as well
First of all, not all areas have non-discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. The EEOC prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. That's it.
Second, we have already seen cases in which private business owners were sued for not providing services to homosexuals and the private business owners lost.
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/25/2008 11:43:07 AM
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Marcus.
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RC
Have you been keeping up with what is going on in Canada along these lines? Silencing Christian opinions and voices seems to be the goal IMO.
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/25/2008 12:11:17 PM
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stellaluna
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Yep, it's considered hate speech.
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/25/2008 2:39:37 PM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
RC
Have you been keeping up with what is going on in Canada along these lines? Silencing Christian opinions and voices seems to be the goal IMO.
Yes I have, and it will absolutely be a sad day when Ministers will be fearful of being arrested for preaching the Word of God.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/25/2008 2:45:58 PM
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Marcus.
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I wonder if the HRC in Canada can be sued for religious discrimination or the individual panel members?
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Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord.
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Care Net
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/25/2008 6:22:24 PM
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tomhillbilly
Posts: 233
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stellaluna, you mean sexual orientation isnt in that law?
private businesses, yes i can dig this.
It seems like if these 'radical homosexual groups' were so dangerous they would have already challenged this and tried forcing themselves into churches as secretaries or piano players or something.
Ive never heard of a case like this, has anyone else? also, could it be that homosexuals dont want to have anything to do with churches or christians anyway?
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/25/2008 6:37:39 PM
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SlipperyWhenWet
Posts: 57
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tomhillbilly
... and tried forcing themselves into churches as secretaries or piano players or something.
Apparently you don't read as much of the news as I do. The homosexuals are quite well entrenched in many religious organizations. My mother works for one of these organizations and has several homosexuals in her office. After all, how could you possibly stop a homosexual from being part of anything? If they don't tell you their sexual orientation, you can't *usually* tell.
If any of you wonder what the 'end goal' is of the 'gay rights activists', I highly recommend you read this:
Michael Swift's 'Gay Revolutionary' (introduction)
If you think that's a little over-the-top, I ask you to think about how much of what is written in there has already come true with the last 20, 15, 10, or 5 years. I'm sure that only extremists view the "Gay Revolutionary" as their marching orders, but then again, I think that only extremists would disrupt church services by yelling "Jesus is a homo", attack elderly ladies who peacefully support marriage, and sue anyone who doesn't agree with their lifestyle just for the sake of proving a point.
_____________________________
Sincerely,
Todd
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/25/2008 7:48:22 PM
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tacitus
Posts: 392
Joined: 5/12/2005
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Yes, there will always be many more closet gay church secretaries and piano players who are there simply because they want to do that job in service of the church and their faith than the occasional "infiltrator" who is only there to stir up trouble. I think most people would be astounded if they knew how many gay people they work and play with all the time. Just look at the number of gays who work for Republicans in Congress -- closeted and openly -- many of them on the staffs of staunch social conservatives who advocate against the homosexual agenda.
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/26/2008 12:03:30 AM
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stellaluna
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tomhillbilly
stellaluna, you mean sexual orientation isnt in that law?
Nope. Some municipalities and companies have written it in, but it isn't part of federal law. (Or state law, as far as I know, but I could be wrong on that.)
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/26/2008 12:22:54 AM
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Marcus.
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My company added it. We have annual training events. When I pointed out that wasn't part of federal or state law when they were covering EEOC guidelines, I got a dirty look from the instructor.
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 11/26/2008 12:28:47 AM
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tacitus
Posts: 392
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tomhillbilly
It would seem that a strong precedant has already been set in america that churches are exempt from this law on account of religious freedom/seperation of church of state.I have never heard of a case where a church was forced to hire a homosexual. If anyone else has or i am wrong on any of this please share.
It would also be interesting for those in other countries to explain the situation regarding these issues as well
Yes, there is/will be a religious exemption for churches -- no church is/will be forced to marry a gay couple if they don't want to (not that many gay couples would want to do that anyway). I doubt that will ever change. As for hiring practices, while I'm sure that there are exemptions for hiring people like pastors, priests, lay workers, pastoral care people, etc, I don't honestly know what the law says (or would say if changed) when it comes to hiring workers for non-religious related posts at a church (not that there are many anyway).
Britain doesn't have gay marriage, but it does have full civil ceremonies and discrimination based on sexual orientation is definitely against the law. However, that doesn't stop the Church of England and the Catholic Church from banning gay men from the pulpit/priesthood even though there are some in rebel parishes, so I assume there is a religious exemption in the U.K.
Frankly, I think it's inevitable that gay marriage will one day be legal across most, if not all of America and all homosexuals will be fully covered under the anti-discrimination statutes. (That's not to take sides, I just think that the momentum is unstoppable - Prop 8 will probably be overturned in the courts and/or at the ballot box by the end of 2010).
But even if and when that happens, 99.9% of all Christians who believe that homosexuality is a sin and should not be legally protected, will never personally be involved in circumstances where there would be a clash over it (with the exception of those who actively seek to protest, of course). Quite simply, gays will go where they are welcome, and will stay away from where they are not. Sure, a few (on both sides) will seek those confrontations (hence the 0.1%) but I really don't see, say, conservative fundamentalist congregation in rural Kentucky being pestered by an influx of gay people intent on being part of their church.
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