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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/1/2008 3:18:25 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: henny
Hmm, I just read in the article that while it is a two person business, they often subcontracted out to other photographers in the past. This does give me a great deal less sympathy for them, as they very well could have just subcontracted this out. It weakens their case somewhat as well, as they clearly were a functioning "business" (subject to all the laws that govern businesses) as oppossed to just a 1 woman show.
Why did they just not shoot the wedding, and photoshop the shots to a point where no other gays would bother them.
Thsnks
RC
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/1/2008 3:25:16 PM
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TheosCentric
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rjd628
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
Sorry, but I'll just have to disagree with you. I believe the photography business was well within it's right to deny service as a private business based on moral grounds.
I develop websites. If a homosexual asked me to develop a website for them promoting homosexuality, I would have to say no. However, if they asked me to develop a website for them which promoted their business or something else which had nothing to do with homosexuality I could say yes.
The photographer apparently felt that by shooting the ceremony, he would be going against his morals. Even sub-contracting in that case, would have gone against his morals. It would be the same for me, if a homosexual asked for a recommendation after I refused. I could not recommend someone to develop a website that promoted homosexuality. Sorry, but the government overstepped it's bounds in fining the photographer.
Private businesses have every right to serve anyone they choose. I have refused service to people, in the restaurant business because of drunkedness. In the website business, because of moral convictions (it was an accupuncture service, but in that case I referred because of the gray area).
The only wrinkle in this is that in New Jersey it is explictly illegal to refuse to do business with an individual because of sexual orientation. So if they ask you to produce (in NJ) a website promoting their sexual orientation & only after agreeing tell you they are homosexual - at which point you refuse to complete the contract - there's a clear violation of NJ discrimination law.
If you ask orientation before agreeing to the contract and then refuse - then the refusal could easily be argued to be because of that individual's sexual orientation and hence also a violation. Outcome would depend on the judge and jury (my guess is you'd lose in NJ - but I'm not a lawyer).
Private business only have the right to serve who they want IF that group is not a protected class. For example, while "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" is allowed (I suspect) it's only because the shirtless &/or shoeless population class is not protected under NJ law.
I'm not saying that it's about their orientation. It's about the principle behind it. What it promotes. If it's promoting homosexuality, I would have nothing to do with it. In fact, I have done a website for a homosexual in the past, but the site had nothing to do with homosexuality.
The photographer in New Mexico refused to shoot the ceremony, because it, in principle, promoted homosexuality. Photographer had ever right to refuse, based on moral principle. If he was asked to shoot the couple's adopted child's school pictures (if they had and were allowed to adopt a child), but refused, then that's a different story.
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/1/2008 3:34:17 PM
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TheosCentric
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: henny
Hmm, I just read in the article that while it is a two person business, they often subcontracted out to other photographers in the past. This does give me a great deal less sympathy for them, as they very well could have just subcontracted this out. It weakens their case somewhat as well, as they clearly were a functioning "business" (subject to all the laws that govern businesses) as oppossed to just a 1 woman show.
Why did they just not shoot the wedding, and photoshop the shots to a point where no other gays would bother them.
Thsnks
RC
As I think about that one, could one photoshop a guy in for one of the gals?
That would at least make it look legitimate.
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"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/2/2008 11:03:51 AM
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Marcus.
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Silence 'deafening' over murder by homosexual
Allie Martin and Jody Brown - OneNewsNow - 12/2/2008 8:00:00 AM
A pro-family activist is questioning why there is no outrage over the murder of a college student by a homosexual.
On November 21, William Smithson, 43, of Delaware County, Pennsylvania, was sentenced to life in prison for the September 2006 strangulation murder of 23-year-old Jason Shephard. Smithson, a homosexual, murdered Shephard after slipping him GHB, a date rape drug, then hid the body in the basement of his home.
Diane Gramley, president of the American Family Association of Pennsylvania, says it is ironic that homosexuals used the murder ten years ago of Matthew Shepherd to push for hate crimes laws -- yet remain largely silent about the murder of Jason Shephard.
Story Continues
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/2/2008 7:36:05 PM
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SlipperyWhenWet
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Silence 'deafening' over murder by homosexual
Allie Martin and Jody Brown - OneNewsNow - 12/2/2008 8:00:00 AM
I was just about to post the same thing.
In a discussion I had several years ago with a person I know who is a homosexual, I mentioned that it's ridiculous to try to compare the gay rights movement with the civil rights movement that the blacks had to face. I referenced the following:
"They haven't hung from any trees," he said. "They can get a job anywhere they want to. They can get an education. They've always had the right. Marriage is the issue. So it's not a civil rights issue. I marched for civil rights." – Reverend William Owens
Of course, my friend followed-up with, "Ah, but they are lynched. Two words, Todd. Matthew Shepard."
I think the article on OneNewsNow is absolutely right... gay rights activists and the liberal media think that the killing of homosexuals shouldn't be tolerated (which is true by all means), but the killing by homosexuals should apparently be swept under the rug and ignored. This murder, in my opinion, is just one more piece of evidence that the media doesn't present the news in an unbiased fashion, they only present the news that fits their agenda. Every time I turn on the nightly news, it starts with 'who was killed today', yet this murder story somehow wasn't interesting to them. Hmm.
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/2/2008 11:23:48 PM
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henny
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From: MN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Silence 'deafening' over murder by homosexual
Allie Martin and Jody Brown - OneNewsNow - 12/2/2008 8:00:00 AM
A pro-family activist is questioning why there is no outrage over the murder of a college student by a homosexual.
On November 21, William Smithson, 43, of Delaware County, Pennsylvania, was sentenced to life in prison for the September 2006 strangulation murder of 23-year-old Jason Shephard. Smithson, a homosexual, murdered Shephard after slipping him GHB, a date rape drug, then hid the body in the basement of his home.
Diane Gramley, president of the American Family Association of Pennsylvania, says it is ironic that homosexuals used the murder ten years ago of Matthew Shepherd to push for hate crimes laws -- yet remain largely silent about the murder of Jason Shephard.
Story Continues
LOL
This is idiotic.
Why should gay activists say anything about this?
Gay activists are vocal about violence against homosexuals, because homosexuals have been targeted in the past specifically because they are gay. That's all. So this murder really doesn't compare enough to demonstrate any supposed "double standard." They would have a point, however, if, for example, a group of radicalized gay people start targeting and murdering heterosexuals specifically because they were heterosexuals. But that obviously wasn't the case here.
Gay people aren't some homogeneous group, or political party, or religion. There's no membership card necessary. There's lots of crazy gay people, just as there's lots of crazy heterosexuals. So I'm not sure how this guy's being gay should compel gay activists to specifically address it in some way, anymore than the fact that members of Charles Manson's gang were heterosexual necessitates that the AFA should release a statement publicly denouncing the Manson murders. This murder says as much about homosexuals as a whole, as the Manson murders said about heterosexuals as a whole. It's a shame that it happened, but I'm not sure why homosexuals should be compelled to make a public show of renouncing it merely because the murderer was gay.
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/3/2008 12:44:04 AM
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SlipperyWhenWet
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quote:
ORIGINAL: henny
Why should gay activists say anything about this?
The point is that the media is not covering this story when murder is typically one of their favorite topics. The mainstream liberal media is doing all it can to promote homosexuality, so stories like this get ignored because it might detract from their goal.
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Todd
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/3/2008 3:14:13 AM
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henny
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SlipperyWhenWet
quote:
ORIGINAL: henny
Why should gay activists say anything about this?
The point is that the media is not covering this story when murder is typically one of their favorite topics. The mainstream liberal media is doing all it can to promote homosexuality, so stories like this get ignored because it might detract from their goal.
That makes no sense.
Even if the media covered this non-stop 24 hours a day, I don't think this story would affect the "gay agenda" for better or worse, or change people's opinions of homosexuals one way or another. Or at least not most sensible people. Maybe the idiots who think that one gay person killing someone somehow reflects on all gay people will view gays more negatively as a result, but I think most people with an ounce of common sense would see past that.
But at any rate, that wasn't the point of the article. The Pennsylvania AFA is claiming a double standard on the part of "homosexuals" for not publicly denouncing this; a double standard which, as I pointed out, is false, given that this particular murder was not of the sort that gay activists usually speak out about. Had, for example, the murder been politically motivated in that it was an instance of someone killing a heterosexual specifically because they were heterosexual and gay activists remained silent, they might have more of a case for the presence of a "double standard." Mainly because, gay activists usually are most vocal about violence perpetrated on people because of their sexuality, so if they remained silent while heterosexuals were attacked specifically for their sexuality, then there would definitely be a double standard here. But as I said, that isn't what this was. This is just some gay guy who killed someone. Given this, it's as ludicrous to expect all homosexuals to publicly renounce murders committed by homosexuals as it is to expect brunettes, or blondes, or short people to renounce all murders committed by brunettes/blondes/short people.
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/3/2008 5:29:22 AM
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TheosCentric
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It actually appears that the story in question is about a homosexual preying on a heterosexual.
Here's a further story: Gay-sex Delco killer spared death penalty
Notice that Shepherd was given a date-rape drug and then killed when he tried to avoid the sexual advances.
Henny is right on something, this isn't a case of killing because Shepherd was heterosexual. Shepherd was killed because he didn't want to have sex with Smithson.
Thousands of woman experience the same thing in our cities every night when they are raped. This is another case of that, just with a homosexual as the perpetrator.
That being said, why are the homosexuals silent over the homosexual would-be rapist?
They're not like that at all, are they? 
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/3/2008 1:50:11 PM
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aslouie
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In a somewhat related issue, does anyone remember that media circus over Andrew (?) Cunannan? He's the same guy who gunned down fashion designer, Gianni Versace, and a few other men on some cross-country rampage--and of course, how I recall in one past TIME or Newsweek, letters-to-the-editor section, where some gay subscribers don't want to have the press make too much of an issue over Cunannan's homosexuality.
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/6/2008 6:38:54 PM
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SlipperyWhenWet
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Guardian.Co.Uk: Gay Bible angers Christians
quote:
A gay version of the Bible, in which God says it is better to be gay than straight, is to be published by an American film producer.
New Mexico-based Revision Studios will publish The Princess Diana Bible – so named because of Diana's "many good works", it says – online at princessdianabible.com in spring 2009. A preview of Genesis is already available, in which instead of creating Adam and Eve, God creates Aida and Eve.
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Todd
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/6/2008 6:45:07 PM
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Marcus.
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The spirit of the anti-christ is alive and well in those who wrote that.
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/7/2008 7:09:40 AM
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TheosCentric
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SlipperyWhenWet
Guardian.Co.Uk: Gay Bible angers Christians
quote:
A gay version of the Bible, in which God says it is better to be gay than straight, is to be published by an American film producer.
New Mexico-based Revision Studios will publish The Princess Diana Bible – so named because of Diana's "many good works", it says – online at princessdianabible.com in spring 2009. A preview of Genesis is already available, in which instead of creating Adam and Eve, God creates Aida and Eve.
I saw that this morning as well. I'm still trying to figure out if it's real or not. It seems extremely spoofy.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/7/2008 7:37:08 PM
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schtumpy
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Not necessarily.
Who did Cain have a family with?
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/7/2008 7:38:48 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
Not necessarily.
Who did Cain have a family with?
Presumably, the women he had sexual relations with.
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Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/7/2008 8:46:24 PM
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schtumpy
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Which women were these?
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/7/2008 9:13:25 PM
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schtumpy
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Well, obviously not too distant.
She had to come from Cain's mom and dad somehow.....
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Attributed to Voltaire
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/7/2008 11:27:40 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
Which women were these?
Sisters, cousins, second-cousins.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/8/2008 12:23:38 AM
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schtumpy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Which women were these?
Sisters, cousins, second-cousins.
And thereby setting the scene for all the deightful and tasteful episodes to follow.
_____________________________
"I deplore what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
Attributed to Voltaire
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/8/2008 12:31:00 AM
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Veritas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Which women were these?
Sisters, cousins, second-cousins.
How does that fit in with an absolute morality? Isn't incest immoral?
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/8/2008 8:45:30 AM
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TheosCentric
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Iowa high court takes on gay marriage
DES MOINES, Iowa - The gay marriage debate moves to the Midwest this week as the Iowa Supreme Court hears arguments in a challenge to the state's ban on same-sex marriage.
If the high court rules in favor of the half dozen gay couples who filed the lawsuit, it would make Iowa the fourth state behind Massachusetts, California and Connecticut to uphold the right of same-sex couples to legally marry. In California, however, voters have negated the courts by amending the state constitution to ban gay marriage.
The Iowa case has been moving through the legal system for more than three years, and it could take a year or more for the state Supreme Court to issue a ruling after hearing oral arguments Tuesday morning.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/8/2008 8:53:28 AM
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Jhud
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quote:
How does that fit in with an absolute morality? Isn't incest immoral?
The immorality of incest has to do with it's potential to proliferate genetic disease; not apparently a concern at that time.
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Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Homosexuality in the News - 12/8/2008 8:54:59 AM
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Jhud
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quote:
And thereby setting the scene for all the deightful and tasteful episodes to follow.
No, that 'scene' was set by Cain's parents.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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