I am so frustrated with so many believing anything they hear!!!
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I am so frustrated with so many believing anything they... - 10/7/2008 2:34:41 PM
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Psalms274
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
A blurb i copied and pasted from AOL commenting on the election - these are my thoughts exactly -
McCain is out of touch, (8 houses, 13 cars) with ordinary Americans...His economic policies are the same as Bush, his military policies are the same as Bush, so ask yourself, would you elect Bush again, my retirement savings are now 50% of what they were this when they quadrupled under Clinton. When Clinton left office with a balanced budget and America at peace and gas at 1.49 a gallon the Dow Jones was 10500 it is now 8 years later, the Dow is at 10,100 so no growth in 8 years when it tripled under Clinton, we have 5000 dead soldiers in a war that is endless, with a budget that is 1 Trillion dollars in debt, and higher unemployment, more jobs lost overseas, more of a trade imbalance, higher inflation, and the US has less allies around the globe. More foreclosures...So why would anyone vote for Bush/ McCain again? His policies are the same.
This quote is a perfect example of buying into what the media hopes you will buy into. The slant in that clip as to who bears the blame for our current woes is scary when you look at what the real story is ... because there are so many out there who do not dig any further than the surface.
Let's see, it gives credit for a balanced budget that one, was pushed by the Republican Congress, not Clinton, and two, was not actually balanced ...
It links McCain with Bush when in reality, McCain has voted with Bush only 67% of the time since Bush came into office in 2001 .... the 90% with Bush number has been over the last year and a half. McCain is not another Bush ... he has been one of the biggest thorns in Bush's side over the past 7 and a half years.
(A side note) To Bush's credit, he was the one asking for reform in 2001 of our current system. The proposal was blocked by the Democrats in committee, just like the fiasco with all the judges being blocked, even in a Republican Congress ... McCain proposed a bill that would have stopped it in 2005, blocked in committee by Democrats. But what he did not do right ... he kept the income level via tax revenues at the same level even though he lowered taxes but ... did not cut spending ... he should have been using that veto pen of his, instead we are spending 30% more than when he took office ... and contrary to what most believe to be true, the biggest increases have been in healthcare, not the war.
Speaking of the war ... some more mis-guided slantings that need to be addressed. When we started the war in Iraq, it was based on faulty intelligence ... BUT AT THE TIME, no one knew it was faulty, including Bush. There was NO WAY they could know. Obama guessed it right at the time .. and I hate to break it to y'all ... it was a lucky guess on his part. He has been wrong about the war ever since, and still will not admit he was wrong about the success of the surge (which has resulted in our troops being able to come home gradually ... something that Obama is now taking credit for ... he is claiming they taken his advice ... but the real reason we are now on our way out is THE SURGE WORKED.)
Are gas prices this administrations fault? No, ... they are up because the WORLD CONSUMPTION has increased due tremendous increases in use in China and India ... but mostly China 
What about the stock market? Back when Clinton was in office I was a stock broker and financial adviser. Do you want to know why your stock went up? It wasn't Clinton, it was the tech industry, and the result was a surge in all stocks to the point of most of them being highly overpriced at the time. The DOW was at 12,000 and those of us on the inside knew it had to come down soon, because the stocks were being sold at prices much higher than their actual value. There had to be a correction ... the prices were going up at astronomical, unrealistic levels. Today, after going through the corrections from 2000 until last year, our economy is suffering because of too many regulations in the credit industry. Freddie, Fannie, all of your banks were giving out mortgages to people who should have never qualified because of legislation, pushed by Clinton, that encouraged these entities to lend to people who did not have the means to pay for that mortgage. We are now in a credit crisis that has caused our financial markets to plummet ... not to mention all of the baby boomers entering into retirement who have started to pull their retirement dollars into safer vehicles so they can access them in retirement. When you have that many people retiring at once, and needing those dollars to live on, the stock market will go down.
You mentioned jobs loss overseas ... with Obama that will get worse as he taxes those companies who hire ... with higher taxes, they will do their business overseas which means fewer jobs here.
You know what the sad thing is? Obama is going to get elected because so many people do not have the intellectual curiosity that is needed to dig and find out the real story ... they are buying what the media says hook, line and sinker ... and the result will be probably the worse financial woes our country has seen in a very long time, not to mention the vulnerability on the security front that goes with those woes ... not to mention the vulnerability from having such a man as our Commander and Chief.
_____________________________
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
< Linus w/ a friends baby!
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 2:47:36 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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yes but a lot of americans are feeling that exact same thing as i posted. unfortunately since bush is president, he will get the blame whether it be true or not. He is the one in charge, right?
so maybe this is all just propagranda and this is all just a dream? you mean Wall street numbers that took a plunge was just something people made up? whew! thank goodness ,, i didn't want ti to be a reality..
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 2:50:34 PM
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Pavteam
Posts: 50
Joined: 11/8/2006
From: South Carolina
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Psalms274,
I absolutely Agree with you. Where were people in school - even people who are in their 50's (like me) - when I know civics was taught. I know - it was the 60's and 70's and they were probably HIGH!
Last night on Hannity radio, I heard a lady from Pittsburgh (where I am originally from) say that a friend - long time democrat - called her after watching Hannity's TV show Sunday night and said I can't believe that NO ONE is telling us of Obama's association with all these people. I'm voting for McCain!
If People also looked into who is on Obama's advisory groups. It would shock people - all the people who this financial mess can be traced back to - are advising Oboma. And How in the first bailout plan - did Obama's old group ACORN - who is at the moment FRAUDULENTLY registering people to vote - How were they going to get 20 million of the 1st bailout plan? Their payment???
I shudder to think of what will happen to our country if Obama gets elected. Socialism !
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 3:00:06 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 1445
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Well, hubby and I were talking last night about the fact that it seems like we only have terrible economic crises when a Republican is running things. Not because Republicans cause crises, but because the news media is eager to jump on every little market or unemployment hiccup as the worst thing that has happened in the history of mankind. And, to some extent, that tends to exacerbate the issue. Whereas, if a Democrat is running things, it's just a little correction, nothing to worry about folks, carry on.
Remember when unemployment rates of 5.6% under Clinton were a wonderful thing? But the unemployment rate under Bush started being a terrible thing when it hit 5.4%, and now that it's at 6.1% there's full-on media hysteria.
So I guess if Obama gets elected, at least our economy will seem to be in better shape, if only because the news media will suddenly start covering it positively. Not sure if that will make a net difference in actual economic growth, but at least we'll all feel better. Sunshine and rainbows! Ponies!
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 3:03:24 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3948
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
yes but a lot of americans are feeling that exact same thing as i posted. unfortunately since bush is president, he will get the blame whether it be true or not. He is the one in charge, right?
so maybe this is all just propagranda and this is all just a dream? you mean Wall street numbers that took a plunge was just something people made up? whew! thank goodness ,, i didn't want ti to be a reality..
Let's face it. The President gets credit or blame for the economy. The Iraq War was started by this administration with support from a GOP-led Congress. Democrats bought the Iraq time-share, too, but they were the minority. The war went poorly and the President was too stubborn to consider significant change until his party was flummoxed in the 2006 mid-term elections. No matter which GOP contender got the nomination, he was going to have the burden of the current administration.
In 2000, Al Gore had to live down the Clinton administration scandals.
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 3:06:44 PM
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Psalms274
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From: Georgia
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quote:
you mean Wall street numbers that took a plunge was just something people made up?
I did not say that ... they were overpriced back in the late 1990s and started to correct (which means the prices of the individual stocks that were overpriced were brought to more realistic levels. For instance, as an example I'll use an apple. If an apple is selling for $10 per apple, that price is too high for it to stay there too long. People will stop buying the apple because they realize the value is only $1 and paying $10 is not wise ... so gradually the price comes down to a more reasonable level that where the cost closely matches the value, say $1.25 ... the price is corrected.)
What we are seeing today is the result of the credit crisis that stems form legislation that encouraged lending institutions to lend to people who were not able to pay them back. That resulted in a loss of money for the banks who lend to businesses. Those businesses lose money because they can no longer get the short term loans they need to meet week to week expenses, including payroll, because most of the equity is tied up in the business, meaning they have most of the businesses money locked in the building and materials that are needed to run the business, very little is cash on hand to do the day to day dealings, but rely on short term lending ... anyways ... the long of the short of it, the business loses value and the stack price goes down.
On top of the credit crunch, the first of the baby boomers began retirement in 2007 and are selling their stock because they are entering retirement ... those who are w/in in 5 to 8 years are doing the same thing by selling stock and putting that money into more conservative markets.
The plummet is very real ... but the blame is being placed on the Bush administration by the media ... the result of people not understanding the issues is they will end up electing the wrong person, which will result in a mess much bigger than the one we have today.
_____________________________
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
< Linus w/ a friends baby!
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 3:23:55 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 1775
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
yes but a lot of americans are feeling that exact same thing as i posted. unfortunately since bush is president, he will get the blame whether it be true or not. He is the one in charge, right?
so maybe this is all just propagranda and this is all just a dream? you mean Wall street numbers that took a plunge was just something people made up? whew! thank goodness ,, i didn't want ti to be a reality..
Of course it's all real - all too real! But blaming it on Bush (especially if that means letting Frank and Pelosi and their minions off the hook, and the American people as well for that matter), is ridiculously simplistic and naive.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Pavteam
Psalms274,
I absolutely Agree with you. Where were people in school - even people who are in their 50's (like me) - when I know civics was taught. I know - it was the 60's and 70's and they were probably HIGH!
What's been taught in public schools for the last 20+ years, I'm afraid, bears little resemblance to what you were taught in the '50s!
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 3:53:31 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1680
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a news report that i heard, said that loans were given to people that were racially done, because people were hollering that they were not given loans because of them being of colour. for example, so now because of having to be fair and not prejudiced (back in the 1970's??), they did that to some who could not afford it.
its ironic how that people nowadays think the best thing is to go bacdk to the old ways - 20% down, and income to prove you can pay it. and no fancy schmancy loans that come back to bite you later. and no buying bigger house than you can afford even if its a smaller one that you want!
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 4:00:12 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2339
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
a news report that i heard, said that loans were given to people that were racially done, because people were hollering that they were not given loans because of them being of colour. for example, so now because of having to be fair and not prejudiced (back in the 1970's??), they did that to some who could not afford it.
its ironic how that people nowadays think the best thing is to go bacdk to the old ways - 20% down, and income to prove you can pay it. and no fancy schmancy loans that come back to bite you later. and no buying bigger house than you can afford even if its a smaller one that you want!
Obama Sued Citibank Under CRA to Force it to Make Bad Loans - UPDATED
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 4:13:51 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1680
Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
a news report that i heard, said that loans were given to people that were racially done, because people were hollering that they were not given loans because of them being of colour. for example, so now because of having to be fair and not prejudiced (back in the 1970's??), they did that to some who could not afford it.
its ironic how that people nowadays think the best thing is to go bacdk to the old ways - 20% down, and income to prove you can pay it. and no fancy schmancy loans that come back to bite you later. and no buying bigger house than you can afford even if its a smaller one that you want!
Obama Sued Citibank Under CRA to Force it to Make Bad Loans - UPDATED
Aha, then its not a rumor. thank you.
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 5:11:31 PM
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sylvan
Posts: 122
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PLEASE - don't believe this stuff that you're spooning out.
quote:
McCain is not another Bush ... he has been one of the biggest thorns in Bush's side over the past 7 and a half years.
Yep, he is worse than Bush. He is worse for the future of the Republican Party and America. As Republican Tom Delay said, "McCain has done more damage to the Party than any elected official he knows".
quote:
Are gas prices this administrations fault? No, ... they are up because the WORLD CONSUMPTION has increased due tremendous increases in use in China and India ... but mostly China
No, but it's our governments fault - Phil Gramm (McCain's economic advisor) in particular. You know, the guy that said a couple months ago that the American financial situation was basically "imagined" - that we need to stop whining. Phil Gramm's Enron Loophole had a big part in the rise of oil prices...McCain supports it. It's not all about China.
quote:
You mentioned jobs loss overseas ... with Obama that will get worse as he taxes those companies who hire ... with higher taxes, they will do their business overseas which means fewer jobs here.
Wow, I hate catch phrases. So tiresome. Taxes have been at an ALL TIME LOW under Bush - I'm not better off my friend, I can tell you that. Taxes were higher under Clinton and even higher under Bush 1 - SO, ALL THAT GROWTH IN THE 90'S WASN'T FROM LOWER TAXES!!!
quote:
so many people do not have the intellectual curiosity that is needed to dig and find out the real story
That is evident in this post.
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 5:17:04 PM
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ik3900
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It's a real shame that nearly everything that is spouted by either side requires such thorough investigation simply to determine whether its true or not. Maybe if libel/slander were punishable by disqualification from the race that would go some way to keeping everyone honest.
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 5:17:45 PM
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Pavteam
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From: South Carolina
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csl7037
YOU SAID - What's been taught in public schools for the last 20+ years, I'm afraid, bears little resemblance to what you were taught in the '50s!
Please RE READ my post - I said People who are in their 50's - like me we were in HS in the 60's & 70's Understand? I'm not THAT OLD!!!
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 5:30:27 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2339
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
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If more people got their information from the source instead of the MSM's filter things would be a whole lot different.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 5:33:47 PM
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Psalms274
Posts: 1441
Joined: 8/13/2005
From: Georgia
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sylvan
No, but it's our governments fault - Phil Gramm (McCain's economic advisor) in particular. You know, the guy that said a couple months ago that the American financial situation was basically "imagined" - that we need to stop whining. Phil Gramm's Enron Loophole had a big part in the rise of oil prices...McCain supports it. It's not all about China.
Sylvan, all I can say is you do not seem to understand economics. Even MSNBC consents it is the result of world consumption ... and they are in Obama's tank!
quote:
quote:
You mentioned jobs loss overseas ... with Obama that will get worse as he taxes those companies who hire ... with higher taxes, they will do their business overseas which means fewer jobs here.
Wow, I hate catch phrases. So tiresome. Taxes have been at an ALL TIME LOW under Bush - I'm not better off my friend, I can tell you that. Taxes were higher under Clinton and even higher under Bush 1 - SO, ALL THAT GROWTH IN THE 90'S WASN'T FROM LOWER TAXES!!!
I did not use any catch phrases ... never mentioned Bush in that quote ... I did say that Bush overspent in the first post. I have already mentioned part of the equation for the growth in the 90's ... tech stock and a balanced budget that the Republican Congress insisted on, having sent the first four Clinton proposals right back to him because the proposed budgets called for too much spending ... back then the Republicans held their ground when it came to being fiscally responsible. There were a lot of other factors that came into play, none of which had anything to do with Clinton, but I do not have the time to go into an economic lesson ... I will come back when I do have the time.
What I did say, and will repeat it, the taxes Obama is proposing for corporations will send even more jobs overseas.
quote:
quote:
so many people do not have the intellectual curiosity that is needed to dig and find out the real story
That is evident in this post.
Yes I agree ... 
_____________________________
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
< Linus w/ a friends baby!
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 5:36:21 PM
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blue1914
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Psalms274
... because so many people do not have the intellectual curiosity that is needed to dig and find out the real story...
I've got to ask this one because it's getting irritating to me - so if we dig, are we indeed to find out that an 8 year old Barack HUSSEIN (even) Obama was not "palling around with terrorists who were targeting their own country?"
I would agree with you that there is a lack of intellectual integrity in this election-but I don't know that I would call it unilateral in any sense of the word-disingenuous talking points abound on EITHER side of the fence. If a broad brush is to be used to paint with, it might benefit one's own point if they too demonstrate what they espouse by balancing their views and statements-just a thought from one who is BEYOND frustrated watching those of us who claim the name of Christ verbally tear down and attack another human being because we do not agree with them politically. Christ told us that to have anger toward someone is to murder them-on this messageboard, there are a bunch of dead politicians out there at the hands of us "loving" Chrsitians!
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 5:43:16 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1680
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i have been thoroughly frustrated with just about ALL POLITICIANS who PROMISE but never deliver and worse LIE LIE LIEEEEEEEE to us just to get our vote.. and then they do nothing except make tax breaks for the rich and their freinds.
Todd Stroger's son who slinked and slipped his way like a snake into chicago cook county politics, he is the BIGGEST SNAKE. im frustrated, but i dont live in cook county anymore YAY.
thats why i dont have much hope for anyone who makes promises.. we've heard it all before. Sinners are gonna do what sinners know to do - LIE LIE LIE!!!!! and you fall for it.
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 5:46:20 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2537
Joined: 10/1/2007
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Here's a fact for you!
"It took 42 presidents 224 years to run up a trillion dollars of U.S. debt held abroad. This president (Bush) has more than doubled that amount in JUST 6 YEARS". Senator Kent Conrad
The Chinese hold 1.3 trillion of this debt and have one time threatened to liquidate them (which would really put the dollar in the toilet) in response to trade sanctions proposed in 2007.
Karl Marx was right when he said the capitalist would sell the communist the rope from which he would be hung!
Change or McSame? I'll take change!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 5:48:50 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2339
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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quote:
i have been thoroughly frustrated with just about ALL POLITICIANS who PROMISE but never deliver and worse LIE LIE LIEEEEEEEE to us just to get our vote.. and then they do nothing except make tax breaks for the rich and their freinds.
Todd Stroger's son who slinked and slipped his way like a snake into chicago cook county politics, he is the BIGGEST SNAKE. im frustrated, but i dont live in cook county anymore YAY.
thats why i dont have much hope for anyone who makes promises.. we've heard it all before. Sinners are gonna do what sinners know to do - LIE LIE LIE!!!!! and you fall for it.
One of the ways to get crooks out of office is for the people to stop re-electing them. I live in Louisiana and believe it or not some of the worst crooks finally got their due. We still have a ways to go like getting rid of Dollar Bill Jefferson who should have been hounded out of office by his constituents when he commandeered National Guard assets to go and save his $90,000. People were literally drowning in his district and yet they still re-elect him. I'm sorry but it ultimately comes down to the voters. If people are too stupid to stop re-electing the crooks they deserve the government they get.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 5:52:12 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2339
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Here's a fact for you!
"It took 42 presidents 224 years to run up a trillion dollars of U.S. debt held abroad. This president (Bush) has more than doubled that amount in JUST 6 YEARS". Senator Kent Conrad
The Chinese hold 1.3 trillion of this debt and have one time threatened to liquidate them (which would really put the dollar in the toilet) in response to trade sanctions proposed in 2007.
Karl Marx was right when he said the capitalist would sell the communist the rope from which he would be hung!
Change or McSame? I'll take change!
Have you asked just what kind of change 0bama is advocating?
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 5:56:29 PM
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sylvan
Posts: 122
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
Sylvan, all I can say is you do not seem to understand economics. Even MSNBC consents it is the result of world consumption
It's not a single factor. Speculators have also driven up the price of oil - a lot of you have complained about speculators on here. The price spiked after the Enron Loophole was passed in 2000 - McCain is for it, Obama against it. We all know about impacts from China, but it's a little more complex. Thanks.
quote:
What I did say, and will repeat it, the taxes Obama is proposing for corporations will send even more jobs overseas.
No, you're throwing out speculating and fear - nothing based in fact. What I was saying (as evidenced over the last 8 years), while taxes have been at all time lows - we have lost more jobs and are worse off than when we had higher taxes under Clinton and Bush 1. That's just a fact.
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