RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything they hear!!!
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 5:58:22 PM
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Psalms274
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quote:
I've got to ask this one because it's getting irritating to me - so if we dig, are we indeed to find out that an 8 year old Barack HUSSEIN (even) Obama was not "palling around with terrorists who were targeting their own country?"
I am sure we will find that he was not palling around as an eight year old. I think the concern is that he was well known for what he did, and was clearly unrepentant ... I will steal (  ) the words from another poster ...
quote:
I assume as a Christian, you place some value as I do on the notion of repentance - that is the idea that someone acknowledges the wrongness of their behaviors and choices, and turns from them. And if there was a smidgeon of evidence to show Ayers had repented of past misdeeds, I would be the first to welcome this change - but he hasn't done so, and has even express regret he didn't do more as a terrorist. So as much forgiveness as you might have in your heart, it would be premature and foolish to extend it to Ayers when he has no desire for it.
So, to sum - Ayers was a terrorist who didn't get convicted because of a technicality after years in hiding. He has continued to claim his past activities were justified, and is radical and anti-American as ever. And Obama funded and organized a radical educational foundation with him. Until you can show Obama did this unknowingly, he is guilty of intentionally yolking himself with this man, and no Christian should defend such behavior.
I think the main problem with his association with Ayres is this was an unrepentant terrorist ... it wasn't still in the past as far as Ayres ideology was concerned. I is still very clear that he is not sorry for his actions. It shows a tremendous amount of poor judgment on Senator Obama's part to use this man as a way to get himself pushed up the political scene. Obama is now denying that their ties were close ... yet the papers released by the University of Illinois show otherwise. Obama was the chair and helped distribute millions of dollars from the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, an organization that Ayres co-founded. The records show the money did not go to education the way they were suppose to ... I have to go teach a class ... I encourage you to look into it.
_____________________________
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
< Linus w/ a friends baby!
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 6:01:56 PM
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AdrianaS
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quote:
I am so frustrated with so many believing anything they hear..
Me too..particularly reggarding Iraq war/invasion and those who were against it, like myself, since the begining and how many Christians worldwide were against it..not just politicians, as those against it must to be boycoted, or they just hate and envy The US.. or whatever US midia choose to trow around just because "they" did not agree with US Mr Bush administration ways reggarding Iraq etc.
Nowdays there are so many ways to check the facts, as I watch debates at C-Span and get to see it without comentaries etc later I may acess sites to just check who said what and etc
Now for sure there are informed voters and uninformed voters in all camps and I do assume in both parties there are the ones who may say they hold all the truth and information on the issues and etc and the other is just blind and do not get the real facts..  In the other hand there are descrimination and some sort of elitism going on into play...at least it come across as an impression of something like that.. when one individual do have tendencies to come up with questions in regard the intelect or whatever from another person choices..now, that is kind of strange particularly when others are exercising their choices based on their views, observations, preferences...in a very individualistic society where freedoms is like gold and people are trowing their gold coins around by chances or by their plain rational, factual decisions.
Frustrated or not here again comes Titus 3 to my remembrace, oh yes The Lord do keep me on check and reminds me stuff.  And I sure do expect wonders and perfection and all I cannot even imagine comming from God alone..until humans are still ruling around I do not expect or surprise with much of the same, regular wordly standards getting only worse as time goes by because The Bible tells me so.
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 7:11:56 PM
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FreddieD
Posts: 299
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Psalms274
This quote is a perfect example of buying into what the media hopes you will buy into. The slant in that clip as to who bears the blame for our current woes is scary when you look at what the real story is ... because there are so many out there who do not dig any further than the surface.
Let's see, it gives credit for a balanced budget that one, was pushed by the Republican Congress, not Clinton, and two, was not actually balanced ...
It had to be Clinton, because once he left office and the Republicans controlled Congress and the executive branch the deficit increased.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Psalms274
It links McCain with Bush when in reality, McCain has voted with Bush only 67% of the time since Bush came into office in 2001 .... the 90% with Bush number has been over the last year and a half. McCain is not another Bush ... he has been one of the biggest thorns in Bush's side over the past 7 and a half years.
McClains fiscal policy are the same as Bush. Lower taxes and spending, and deregulation is a sure a path to disaster.
FreddieD
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 9:02:32 PM
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litfire2000
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what most people do not understand is that what we believe taints what we study...therefore, no matter what the "real truth" actually is, what we believe has effect on how we perceive it...and we tend to study mostly from those sources that present things in line with what we believe...humans tend to be much more subjective than objective...there are always two or more sides to any story and "truth" generally lies somewhere in between and betwixt...the only truth for certain=Christ
_____________________________
Ps. 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 11:09:10 PM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Here's a fact for you!
"It took 42 presidents 224 years to run up a trillion dollars of U.S. debt held abroad. This president (Bush) has more than doubled that amount in JUST 6 YEARS". Senator Kent Conrad
The Chinese hold 1.3 trillion of this debt and have one time threatened to liquidate them (which would really put the dollar in the toilet) in response to trade sanctions proposed in 2007.
Karl Marx was right when he said the capitalist would sell the communist the rope from which he would be hung!
Change or McSame? I'll take change!
Have you asked just what kind of change 0bama is advocating?
Yeah! The change is that he would concentrate on THIS country rather than galloping off to save the world or fill the coffers of his friends and business associates and while taking the national debt to from $5.6 trillion to $8.8 trillion.
How Bush Accumulates Debt!
We are now an economic hostage of China and OPEC and this can (and HAS) affected our foreign policy!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 11:44:58 PM
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Zhi
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quote:
It had to be Clinton, because once he left office and the Republicans controlled Congress and the executive branch the deficit increased.
In all fairness, that might have had something to do with two jet liners slamming into the World Trade Center within a year of his exit. Funny how that can screw up an economy.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/7/2008 11:51:55 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2339
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Here's a fact for you!
"It took 42 presidents 224 years to run up a trillion dollars of U.S. debt held abroad. This president (Bush) has more than doubled that amount in JUST 6 YEARS". Senator Kent Conrad
The Chinese hold 1.3 trillion of this debt and have one time threatened to liquidate them (which would really put the dollar in the toilet) in response to trade sanctions proposed in 2007.
Karl Marx was right when he said the capitalist would sell the communist the rope from which he would be hung!
Change or McSame? I'll take change!
Have you asked just what kind of change 0bama is advocating?
Yeah! The change is that he would concentrate on THIS country rather than galloping off to save the world or fill the coffers of his friends and business associates and while taking the national debt to from $5.6 trillion to $8.8 trillion.
How Bush Accumulates Debt!
We are now an economic hostage of China and OPEC and this can (and HAS) affected our foreign policy!
Beware Charismatic Men Who Preach 'Change'
Editor, Times-Dispatch:
Each year I get to celebrate Independence Day twice. On June 30 I celebrate my independence day and on July 4 I celebrate America's. This year is special, because it marks the 40th anniversary of my independence.
On June 30, 1968, I escaped Communist Cuba and a few months later I was in the United States to stay. That I happened to arrive in Richmond on Thanksgiving Day is just part of the story, but I digress.
I've thought a lot about the anniversary this year. The election-year rhetoric has made me think a lot about Cuba and what transpired there. In the late 1950s, most Cubans thought Cuba needed a change, and they were right. So when a young leader came along, every Cuban was at least receptive.
When the young leader spoke eloquently and passionately and denounced the old system, the press fell in love with him. They never questioned who his friends were or what he really believed in. When he said he would help the farmers and the poor and bring free medical care and education to all, everyone followed. When he said he would bring justice and equality to all, everyone said "Praise the Lord." And when the young leader said, "I will be for change and I'll bring you change," everyone yelled, "Viva Fidel!"
...
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/8/2008 12:19:46 AM
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leonfigg3
Posts: 349
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Back in high school, I had a history teacher tell me that in time Russia will become more captialistic and America would become more socialistic. This was back in the 1960s.
Well, we've seen Russia become more capitalistic. We have even seen Communist China become more capitalistic. Now we are watching socialism take over our country.
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/8/2008 12:39:03 AM
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sue244
Posts: 439
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Colorado
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I just finish studying the Roman Empire in my Western Civ class in College. I thought it was instersting that it was leaders that promised the masses food, lower cost grain, and urban projects throughout the empire that paved the way for Julius Caeser and then Octavian to declare themselves dictators for life. We now have someone who is promising to throw money at us, cut taxes for "95" of Working people, create new green jobs etc. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. People are not only not looking in to the facts behind what people say, they are not looking at history. History tells us excatcly where we will end up if we choose a certian path.
And no I'm not saying that I think Obama will declare himself a dictator if he gets elected, but we are paving the way for that to happen here in America just like the Romans did in their time.
_____________________________
"Indeed I Tremble for this country when I reflect that God is Just and His Justice cannot Sleep Forever"
Jefferson
"Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.” Churchill
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/8/2008 9:01:57 AM
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stampinlady
Posts: 1522
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Northern IL
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quote:
I think the main problem with his association with Ayres is this was an unrepentant terrorist
And why does he have to repent? Since when are we to judge him under believers's rules? I find this comment perplexing. How many 60's violent demonstrators have repented? I'm sure some may have, but the vast majority haven't. It's a pride thing. Yes, for a believer it's necessary. It would be one thing if he came out and said he was a believer and then made the comment about not regretting what he did, but ..... .
_____________________________
Deb
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/8/2008 9:34:03 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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yesterday after the debate, CNN said that Mccain won the debate (12% were for Obama) but on MSNBC - Obama won and Mccain was the loser.
Why is that?
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/8/2008 9:42:23 AM
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StephK
Posts: 2339
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
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Bias
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/8/2008 9:44:14 AM
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phreddy
Posts: 278
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
yesterday after the debate, CNN said that Mccain won the debate (12% were for Obama) but on MSNBC - Obama won and Mccain was the loser.
Why is that?
MSNBC has a very heavy bias towards democrats and liberal views.
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/8/2008 9:50:33 AM
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phreddy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
quote:
I think the main problem with his association with Ayres is this was an unrepentant terrorist
And why does he have to repent? Since when are we to judge him under believers's rules? I find this comment perplexing. How many 60's violent demonstrators have repented? I'm sure some may have, but the vast majority haven't. It's a pride thing. Yes, for a believer it's necessary. It would be one thing if he came out and said he was a believer and then made the comment about not regretting what he did, but ..... .
He admitted that he bombed the pentagon in a September 11th, 2001 article in the NY times. He said he wished they had done more. The article is availble online and has been linked to numerous times in these politcal threads. He admitted he was guilty of terrorist activities. He is still proud of them (as of his last comments on record). I don't know how to be any more clear than that.
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/8/2008 9:53:39 AM
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stampinlady
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quote:
I don't know how to be any more clear than that.
Huh? I know what he did. Re-read my post.
_____________________________
Deb
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/8/2008 9:55:09 AM
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letusreason
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phreddy
quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
quote:
I think the main problem with his association with Ayres is this was an unrepentant terrorist
And why does he have to repent? Since when are we to judge him under believers's rules? I find this comment perplexing. How many 60's violent demonstrators have repented? I'm sure some may have, but the vast majority haven't. It's a pride thing. Yes, for a believer it's necessary. It would be one thing if he came out and said he was a believer and then made the comment about not regretting what he did, but ..... .
He admitted that he bombed the pentagon in a September 11th, 2001 article in the NY times. He said he wished they had done more. The article is availble online and has been linked to numerous times in these politcal threads. He admitted he was guilty of terrorist activities. He is still proud of them (as of his last comments on record). I don't know how to be any more clear than that.
And....as if we need more....Ayers was photographed in rescent years standing on and tramplin the American flag. So it's just a coincidence that Obama has said he will not wear the American flag pin on his chest and was the only congressman not putting his hand over his heart during the national anthem at an event, and he opposes a constitutional ban on flag desecration??
If you lay down with dogs you are going to get flees.
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News Bias? - 10/8/2008 10:00:42 AM
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Evangel70
Posts: 551
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quote:
yesterday after the debate, CNN said that Mccain won the debate (12% were for Obama) but on MSNBC - Obama won and Mccain was the loser.
Why is that?
I think you were probably watching the FOX NEWS poll. CNN's quick poll immediately after the debate had Obama winning by 54%.
NASHVILLE, Tennessee (CNN) -- A national poll of debate watchers suggests that Sen. Barack Obama won the second presidential debate.
Fifty-four percent of those questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey conducted after the debate ended said that Obama did the best job in the debate, with 30 percent saying Sen. John McCain performed better.
Story Here
_____________________________
May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/8/2008 10:10:57 AM
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phreddy
Posts: 278
Joined: 3/28/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
quote:
I don't know how to be any more clear than that.
Huh? I know what he did. Re-read my post.
So you don't think that someone who intentionally bombs public buildings, putting many peoples lives at risk, needs to repent?
Would it make you fell better if we said he needs to repudiate his past deeds and express regret for the way he handled the situation?
< Message edited by phreddy -- 10/8/2008 10:18:17 AM >
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Fear and Smear - the sequel - 10/8/2008 10:17:07 AM
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Evangel70
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quote:
I think the main problem with his association with Ayres is this was an unrepentant terrorist ... it wasn't still in the past as far as Ayres ideology was concerned. I is still very clear that he is not sorry for his actions. It shows a tremendous amount of poor judgment on Senator Obama's part to use this man as a way to get himself pushed up the political scene. Obama is now denying that their ties were close ... yet the papers released by the University of Illinois show otherwise. Obama was the chair and helped distribute millions of dollars from the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, an organization that Ayres co-founded.
Perhaps it's just me, but I don't think it's Obama's responsibility to make Ayres "repent" for his terrorist activities. Ayres repentance is between him and God. There's also the issue of whether Obama knew about Ayers past when he served on the board with him. I'm 38 years old and I've never heard of Ayers before he was in the news several months ago. I serve on several boards myself and I haven't done background searches on everyone who works with me.
Let's say for the sake of argument that Obama knew about all about Ayers past. Unless Ayers was promoting terrorism and teaching not only his college students but community organizers how to build bombs and blow up buildings, I still don't understand the "terrorist" tie. Is there any proof that Ayers was promoting terrorism when he helped Obama begin his political career? Is he currently promoting terrorism as a college professor? Does anyone have any transcripts or video of Ayers promoting terrorist activities?
I think it reeks of desparation to have the McCain/Palin campaign try to associate Obama with terrorism. It only ties McCain to the Bush/Cheney "fear and smear" tactics and reinforces the belief that McCain will be another Bush.
_____________________________
May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/8/2008 10:18:47 AM
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stampinlady
Posts: 1522
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Northern IL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phreddy
quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
quote:
I don't know how to be any more clear than that.
Huh? I know what he did. Re-read my post.
So you don't think that someone who intentionally bombs public buildings, putting many peoples lives, risk needs to repent?
Not unless he's truly sorry.
_____________________________
Deb
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RE: Fear and Smear - the sequel - 10/8/2008 10:20:13 AM
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phreddy
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I don't think anyone has said that it is Obama's job to make Ayers repent. The problem is that Obama is politcally involved with a person who thinks that bombing public buildings is a good way to demonstrate against the government.
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/8/2008 12:33:32 PM
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Psalms274
Posts: 1441
Joined: 8/13/2005
From: Georgia
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
quote:
I think the main problem with his association with Ayres is this was an unrepentant terrorist
And why does he have to repent? Since when are we to judge him under believers's rules? I find this comment perplexing. How many 60's violent demonstrators have repented? I'm sure some may have, but the vast majority haven't. It's a pride thing. Yes, for a believer it's necessary. It would be one thing if he came out and said he was a believer and then made the comment about not regretting what he did, but ..... .
OK ... I'll try to so slow. The problem is Obama chose to get close with an unrepentant terrorist in order to get ahead politically when he entered politics. The evidence (from the newly released Chicago Annenberg Challenge) show that their relationship was much closer than he is admitting. This means he has a relationship with a man who bombed things here in America, and is glad he did it. That would be like John McCain hanging out with someone who use to bomb abortion clinics (where one resulted in a death as was w/ Ayres) and stated they were glad they did it?
Now if Ayres was repentant, we could give some grace just as God does and assume/hope that he had changed his ways. Then Obama's association with him would not be damaging.
That is why we are concerned about William Ayres not repenting ... by not being repentant, Obama's friendship with him speaks volumes about his own character ... it causes us to question, what kind of man (referring to Obama) would seek out the help from a man (referring to Ayres) who use to bomb things here in America, where one life was lost, and still says he is not sorry he did it.
_____________________________
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
< Linus w/ a friends baby!
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/8/2008 1:33:45 PM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1229
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quote:
Editor, Times-Dispatch:
Each year I get to celebrate Independence Day twice. On June 30 I celebrate my independence day and on July 4 I celebrate America's. This year is special, because it marks the 40th anniversary of my independence.
On June 30, 1968, I escaped Communist Cuba and a few months later I was in the United States to stay. That I happened to arrive in Richmond on Thanksgiving Day is just part of the story, but I digress.
I've thought a lot about the anniversary this year. The election-year rhetoric has made me think a lot about Cuba and what transpired there. In the late 1950s, most Cubans thought Cuba needed a change, and they were right. So when a young leader came along, every Cuban was at least receptive.
When the young leader spoke eloquently and passionately and denounced the old system, the press fell in love with him. They never questioned who his friends were or what he really believed in. When he said he would help the farmers and the poor and bring free medical care and education to all, everyone followed. When he said he would bring justice and equality to all, everyone said "Praise the Lord." And when the young leader said, "I will be for change and I'll bring you change," everyone yelled, "Viva Fidel!"
That is true..but as we are in 2008 we must tell both side of history and what went on reggarding left dictatorship regimes and right dictactorship regimes and when there were 2 superpowers around playing their interests and behind both gvernments as their foreigner policies. The USA did help put right wing dictatorship in power in many countries also.
There is an "old" 1985 Cato analisys (here) talking about US policies in Latin America and the nonsense as how a nation that is all about freedom and democracy did support the oposite because of self interest, close their eyes while those it supports was oppresing their people etc etc. Than is commom as the exemple above, that a person running from left wing dictatorship turning right wing and the ones running from right wing turning left wing...they may run to extremes, for a while..
There is no saint or perfect nations, all miss the mark and much hipocrisy goes on around doing "good". The balanced healthy thing to come across with is to nations reckon their mistakes and just face history reality, not just one side of many matters.
"Finally, and not the least important, reducing our Third World commitments would put an end to the hypocrisy that has pervaded U.S. relations with countries in the Third World. It is debilitating for a society that honors democracy and fundamental human rights to embrace regimes that scorn both values. A nation that believes in human liberty has no need for, and should not want, "friends" who routinely practice the worst forms of repression. A policy of detachment would restore a badly needed sense of honor and consistency to American foreign policy."
Now we see into play a wish return of another power that is not totaly gone, it seems wanting to have its place on the superpower ways? Here we go seeing Russia latest excursions into Latin America ( as entering their neighbors lands also).
Lots of things going on around the world, as we are into elections and economy and world market crisis on top of everything else.
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RE: I am so frustrated with so many believing anything ... - 10/8/2008 4:36:17 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 2004
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Psalms274
That is why we are concerned about William Ayres not repenting ... by not being repentant, Obama's friendship with him speaks volumes about his own character ... it causes us to question, what kind of man (referring to Obama) would seek out the help from a man (referring to Ayres) who use to bomb things here in America, where one life was lost, and still says he is not sorry he did it.
Oh, it's not just Ayres.
It's Obama's former pastor Jeremiah Wright, and Obama's not quite dismissal of Wright's more controversial views.
It's ACORN.
It's the relationship between ACORN, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, those in Congress who got us into this mess, several of Obama's financial advisors (are these the people who would be advising PRESIDENT Obama as far as getting us out of this mess?) who are former high-ranking Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac employees (such as James A. Johnson, former Fannie Mae chairman and CEO)...and Obama.
_____________________________
America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: News Bias? - 10/8/2008 4:39:43 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1680
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
quote:
yesterday after the debate, CNN said that Mccain won the debate (12% were for Obama) but on MSNBC - Obama won and Mccain was the loser.
Why is that?
I think you were probably watching the FOX NEWS poll. CNN's quick poll immediately after the debate had Obama winning by 54%.
Hi - well i was switching from CNN and MSNBC right after the election, and thats the numbers they posted when they polled either that panel behind them or some other group.. amazing how totally different the numbers were.
are you saying CNN made a booboo?
coz clearly everyone was saying how mccain bombed and obama was good.
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