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The liberals - 10/8/2008 3:24:23 PM
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nomensrea
Posts: 22
Joined: 10/8/2008
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Real live liberal here. Hi. I'm here to answer your questions about what "the liberals" believe, and why we believe it. Go ahead. Ask away. 
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RE: The liberals - 10/8/2008 3:40:16 PM
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nomensrea
Posts: 22
Joined: 10/8/2008
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Feeling shy? Don't worry... me too. I'm a newbie.
Still, I have been a lurker for a while and I can't help but marvel at all of the misconceptions I see posted so (ahem) liberally around these threads about people whose politics lean left. I figure, if you really believe that I hate so many things (like Sarah Palin for not aborting her baby boy, for example) you have to have some questions for me. I know that if I believed you absolutely hated Barack Obama for calling for universal health care, for example, I'd have some questions for you. Hate is a strong word. The best antidote to hate is understanding. So if you think I hate you, allow me to extend an olive branch. I don't. Some of my liberal friends are downright rude when they encounter conservatives in conversation. But I don't know a single one that loves abortions or wants to trade in our democracy for communism.
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RE: The liberals - 10/8/2008 3:44:58 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10946
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Sadly, since this is an online forum, it is difficult to hold hands and sing, "I'd like to teach the world to sing..." 
Sorry Jack. I'm drinking a Pepsi.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: The liberals - 10/8/2008 3:48:29 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7770
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: online
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quote:
Sorry Jack. I'm drinking a Pepsi.
That would explain your difficulty loving liberals.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: The liberals - 10/8/2008 3:53:17 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1060
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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I don't think any of us on the right "hate" the Obamessiah. We definitely have very strong aversions to most of his political views, such as cozying up to such people as the President of Iran, taxation, nationalized healthcare, etc. We also don't like his hobnobbing with unrepentant terrorists (Bill Ayers & his wife), spending 20 years under the "pastorship" of Rev. Jeremiah Wright, questionable dealings with Tony Rezko........... The list is seemingly endless.
Since you're "taking questions," can you tell me why the Democrats of today are like the Socialists of yesteryear and why the Democrats of yesteryear are like middle of the road Republicans of today?
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: The liberals - 10/8/2008 3:53:51 PM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1229
Joined: 3/21/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nomensrea
Real live liberal here. Hi. I'm here to answer your questions about what "the liberals" believe, and why we believe it. Go ahead. Ask away.
Hi there! Welcome to foruns.
I have 2 questions for now..
1) what is the difference of being liberal for Obama and liberal for Ron Paul ?
2) What is the difference of being liberal in the US mindset and other democratic places?
Please, keep in mind that I do not know much and that I am foreigner born and get confuse with politics and 2 party system also.
Thanks.
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RE: The liberals - 10/8/2008 3:54:55 PM
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EStan
Posts: 451
Joined: 7/27/2005
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I have a question: do you or any liberals you know believe a socialist agenda would better serve the United States and her citizens? Why or why not?
_____________________________
Eternal Father, grant that through the tears of repentance I may see more clearly the brightness and glories of the saving cross.
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RE: The liberals - 10/8/2008 7:41:06 PM
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nomensrea
Posts: 22
Joined: 10/8/2008
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DaveMiller7 said quote:
can you tell me why the Democrats of today are like the Socialists of yesteryear and why the Democrats of yesteryear are like middle of the road Republicans of today?
EStan said quote:
do you or any liberals you know believe a socialist agenda would better serve the United States and her citizens? Why or why not?
Dave, I'll be honest. I just don't know enough about history to be familiar with the politics of Socialists of the past (are you talking pre-WWII?) so I really can't say how similar their political views are to the ones I hold. Same goes for Democrats from the past, although I do know that Republicans and Democrats of a different era had vastly different agendas and political opinions than they do today. If you want to ask about specific points on a socialist agenda, I can tell you whether or not I agree with them. I won't say flat out that I do or I don't because I simply don't know.
EStan, please reference my answer above. That said, I don't call myself a Democrat as I think most of our politicians are pretty corrupt and put little faith in them to solve the problems of our nation. My views tend toward the left in most respects, although this does not mean that I have "drank the kool-aid" so to speak. I do have some friends from when I was in college that have thrown the word "socialism" around. I can't speak for them. I am thinking specifically of one or two people who do not support Barrack Obama (or John McCain) and would call themselves radicals, and shudder at the term "liberal". If you want to talk about specific points on a socialist agenda, I'd be glad to give my opinion.
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RE: The liberals - 10/8/2008 7:50:28 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2339
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
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quote:
Dave, I'll be honest. I just don't know enough about history to be familiar with the politics of Socialists of the past (are you talking pre-WWII?) so I really can't say how similar their political views are to the ones I hold. Same goes for Democrats from the past, although I do know that Republicans and Democrats of a different era had vastly different agendas and political opinions than they do today. If you want to ask about specific points on a socialist agenda, I can tell you whether or not I agree with them. I won't say flat out that I do or I don't because I simply don't know.
It might be wise to read up on some of your history then.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: The liberals - 10/8/2008 7:52:00 PM
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nomensrea
Posts: 22
Joined: 10/8/2008
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Fine. But since I can't do that right now, will you share with me what you know? There's a lot of history to catch up on, and I'm trying to get at the heart of what the above posters are asking about. Ask my thoughts on the "socialist agenda" is no more clear than asking Palin her thoughts on the "Bush doctrine". I'd like to know: in what respect?
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RE: The liberals - 10/8/2008 8:01:45 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2339
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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Shouldn't you be willing to look up that history before trying to enlighten us?
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: The liberals - 10/8/2008 8:52:41 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1744
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: online
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quote:
what is the difference of being liberal for Obama and liberal for Ron Paul ?
Ooo, ooo, since I have a Ron Paul bumper sticker, can I answer that one?
Dr. Paul supports smaller government, and the liberties and freedoms therein.
Obama, from what I've read, seen and heard, supports bigger government, and the nanny-like control therein.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: The liberals - 10/8/2008 9:27:41 PM
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nomensrea
Posts: 22
Joined: 10/8/2008
Status: offline
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MrFribbles said quote:
Ooo, ooo, since I have a Ron Paul bumper sticker, can I answer that one?
Thanks, MrFribbles! I overlooked that, and yeah I definitely think you're better qualified to answer the Ron Paul question than me :) Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Ron Paul supporters considered to be more like libertarians than liberals? From what I know, I'd agree with your assessment that Ron Paul wants smaller government, whereas Obama supports government programs and involvement in issues that Paul would prefer the Federal government stay out of.
LoyalGypsy said quote:
in MHO the majority of the DEM party is nothing more than bunch of cowards running away with their tails between their legs since 911
LoyalGypsy, since you're not asking a question maybe you won't mind if I ask you one. I'm a democrat (insofar as I have to be Dem or Republican) -- why does that make me a coward?
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RE: The liberals - 10/8/2008 9:45:03 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1744
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: online
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quote:
aren't Ron Paul supporters considered to be more like libertarians than liberals?
I would say that's a fair assessment. Dr. Paul is effectively a Libertarian, in my opinion.
I hope you don't too great an offense at my nanny-like comparison of Obama's positions. I just don't enjoy any big-government candidates. The bigger the government gets, the smaller our freedoms become.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: The liberals - 10/9/2008 10:36:38 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2458
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nomensrea
MrFribbles said quote:
Ooo, ooo, since I have a Ron Paul bumper sticker, can I answer that one?
Thanks, MrFribbles! I overlooked that, and yeah I definitely think you're better qualified to answer the Ron Paul question than me :) Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Ron Paul supporters considered to be more like libertarians than liberals? From what I know, I'd agree with your assessment that Ron Paul wants smaller government, whereas Obama supports government programs and involvement in issues that Paul would prefer the Federal government stay out of.
LoyalGypsy said quote:
in MHO the majority of the DEM party is nothing more than bunch of cowards running away with their tails between their legs since 911
LoyalGypsy, since you're not asking a question maybe you won't mind if I ask you one. I'm a democrat (insofar as I have to be Dem or Republican) -- why does that make me a coward?
Greetings
quote:
I'm a democrat (insofar as I have to be Dem or Republican)
I am sorry to hear that,
It used to be a great party, but ever since J F Kennedy and Bobby were knocked off and Teddy sold out the party; it seems to have fallen to the wayside…
quote:
you're not asking a question
The reason why I didn’t ask a question in that post was based on Obama’s examples of being liberal; it seems his portrayal that a liberal won’t answer it truthfully to being with
quote:
maybe you won't mind if I ask you one.—
quote:
why does that make me a coward?
A better question would have been to ask how I came about the conclusion
I’ll be happy to offer up how I came about the conclusion; I did not raise my opinions on cowardness lightly, it is rather 3 fold ….but you’ll have to answer the other part on your own.
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: The liberals - 10/9/2008 10:47:27 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 1775
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nomensrea
Dave, I'll be honest. I just don't know enough about history to be familiar with the politics of Socialists of the past (are you talking pre-WWII?) so I really can't say how similar their political views are to the ones I hold. Same goes for Democrats from the past, although I do know that Republicans and Democrats of a different era had vastly different agendas and political opinions than they do today. If you want to ask about specific points on a socialist agenda, I can tell you whether or not I agree with them. I won't say flat out that I do or I don't because I simply don't know.
Well, therein lies the problem, don't ya think? Too many "liberals" (and conservatives quite frankly) just want to talk about it (from prepared talking points or sound bites), but not actually think about any of it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Sadly, since this is an online forum, it is difficult to hold hands and sing, "I'd like to teach the world to sing..."
Sorry Jack. I'm drinking a Pepsi.
I'm strictly a Diet Coke girl and I can coexist quite peacefully here with Stamper_Ben. That's a start!
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RE: The liberals - 10/9/2008 10:54:40 AM
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ayani
Posts: 194
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nomensrea
Feeling shy? Don't worry... me too. I'm a newbie.
Still, I have been a lurker for a while and I can't help but marvel at all of the misconceptions I see posted so (ahem) liberally around these threads about people whose politics lean left. I figure, if you really believe that I hate so many things (like Sarah Palin for not aborting her baby boy, for example) you have to have some questions for me. I know that if I believed you absolutely hated Barack Obama for calling for universal health care, for example, I'd have some questions for you. Hate is a strong word. The best antidote to hate is understanding. So if you think I hate you, allow me to extend an olive branch. I don't. Some of my liberal friends are downright rude when they encounter conservatives in conversation. But I don't know a single one that loves abortions or wants to trade in our democracy for communism.
Welcome to the board - I appreciate and respect people who are willing to extend an olive branch 'across the aisle', even if they know some will claw their hand.
I have a couple questions:
1) What are the major beliefs/characteristics of liberalism that you relate to or agree with?
2) What brings you to this board? Do you know the love of Christ?
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RE: The liberals - 10/9/2008 10:54:58 AM
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nomensrea
Posts: 22
Joined: 10/8/2008
Status: offline
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MrFribbles - No offense taken. I understand the nanny comment, even if I disagree. I think it's a kind of funny image, actually! We just have differing opinions on where to draw the line when it comes to federal government involvement.
LoyalGypsy - you said quote:
The reason why I didn’t ask a question in that post was based on Obama’s examples of being liberal; it seems his portrayal that a liberal won’t answer it truthfully to being with
I wouldn't say that Obama represents my ability to answer a question truthfully any more than McCain represents a Republican's ability to answer a question truthfully. He and McCain are both politicians running for presidency, which means they are both going to talk out of both sides of their mouths in order to please the widest range of constituents. An ordinary, run-of-the-mill American citizen doesn't have any need to try to please other people, so in some ways we're in a better position to give our honest, forthright opinion. I don't think you can generalize about the character traits of all liberals or conservatives based on a single political figure.
That said, I'll ask the question: what leads you to the conclusion that all liberals are cowards since 9/11?
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RE: The liberals - 10/9/2008 11:18:48 AM
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nomensrea
Posts: 22
Joined: 10/8/2008
Status: offline
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csl7037 quote:
Too many "liberals" (and conservatives quite frankly) just want to talk about it (from prepared talking points or sound bites), but not actually think about any of it.
That's probably true. Critical thinking is a pretty fundamental part of a working democracy. I'm not saying I don't want to discuss socialism. I'm just admitting that I don't know enough about it (and it's a pretty huge political theory with vastly different interpretations) to speak to its applicability to my beliefs. I offered to discuss it if anyone wanted to get into specifics, but so far nobody has been interested. That's okay, either way.
Hi Ayani. Thanks for the welcome :)
quote:
What are the major beliefs/characteristics of liberalism that you relate to or agree with?
Well... I should probably reflect on this before responding, but I'll write off the cuff here. Starting with a fundamental difference between liberals and conservatives, I believe that the federal government has a duty to ensure certain protections to all Americans - affordable health care, a good education, the ability to retire, eat, basically to make sure that all people in this country can have access to the resources that make us a first world nation. (My understanding is that conservatives want all those things for all people too, but prefer that the government not be the one in charge of making it happen.) I also believe that the federal government should stay out of highly personal issues that have to do with our autonomy as humans -- where, when and to whom we pray, what books we check out of the library, who we talk to on the phone, and, yes, those hot button issues: whether to sustain a pregnancy (although I strongly support a ban on late-term abortion) and whether gay couples who would otherwise be married should have all the rights that legally married people have. I would hardly say that this is a "liberal" position, in that so many of our democrats in congress haven't demonstrated the same belief, but I disagree with our use of military troops to take out Saddam Hussein and rebuild the Iraqi government, and more generally with the way we use violence to achieve our goals. I support our troops but feel sad to see the way that we have taken them for granted over the past seven years. This is a complex issue I can't exactly summarize my position on here. Other issues... I disagree with teaching abstinence-only sex-education in school. I believe that our immigration laws are incredibly flawed in a way that both hurts American workers and exploits immigrants from third-world countries. I don't think that our job as a country is to "spread democracy" throughout the world. I believe in investing heavily in new energy technology. Those are some of my beliefs which correspond with liberalism.
quote:
What brings you to this board? Do you know the love of Christ?
What brings me to this board is that I stumbled upon it after reading some of Crosswalk's articles and took an immense interest in the viewpoints that I saw here, because they are simply not represented in the mainstream media. I love dialogue and discussion and I find myself challenged in new ways by the different perspectives of others here.
I am blessed to know the love of Christ. I thank God for that, because I am as flawed as they come.
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