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Which is, in a nutshell, the point really isn't it? We are on a CHRISTIAN message board - aren't we supposed to be a little different than the world?

Isn't our hallmark supposed to be love-in all things? Faith hope and love, the greatest of these is love-if I have not love, I am a clanging cymbol-LOVE-isn't that supposed to be the name of the game?

The only thing I hate is that it has to be pointed out that there really is no need to hate in any form-disagree (on matter of policy, etc.), sure, but HATE-it's the opposite of LOVE, the thing we ALL as Christians are supposed to have regardless of how we believe.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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Which is, in a nutshell, the point really isn't it? We are on a CHRISTIAN message board - aren't we supposed to be a little different than the world?

Isn't our hallmark supposed to be love-in all things? Faith hope and love, the greatest of these is love-if I have not love, I am a clanging cymbol-LOVE-isn't that supposed to be the name of the game?

The only thing I hate is that it has to be pointed out that there really is no need to hate in any form-disagree (on matter of policy, etc.), sure, but HATE-it's the opposite of LOVE, the thing we ALL as Christians are supposed to have regardless of how we believe.

So I take it you are a Coke drinker?

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sure, but HATE-it's the opposite of LOVE

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ORIGINAL: Marcus.

My question was for whoever wanted to answer it.

I asked because that is how I see many but not all on the left. Most particularly the leadership on the left.

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ORIGINAL: ljmac

Liberals:
- Attack our soldiers and defend terrorists

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ORIGINAL: ljmac

Liberals:
- Attack our soldiers and defend terrorists
- Fight to remove the cross from public display unless it's in a jar of urine
- Taught children to think oral sex isn't sex
- Believe in equality as long as long as white people have less of it
- Respect the Constitution that's in their heads, but hate the one written on paper
- Are charitable with other people's money, not their own
- Think putting to death convicted killers is bad, but paying baby killers is good
- Think marriage is out of fashion unless it's between sodomites
- Think owning a gun should be illegal, but stabbing a baby in the skull should be legal

They have their sick tendencies, but BHO topped them all when he argued that it is unconstitutional to provide life saving care to a baby that survived an abortion.

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ORIGINAL: huangshan

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ORIGINAL: Marcus.

My question was for whoever wanted to answer it.

I asked because that is how I see many but not all on the left. Most particularly the leadership on the left.

It's begging the question either way. 'Why do so many conservative racists hide behind code words like "minorities"?'

I can see some Marxism in universities (typically in fields like sociology), and maybe some at the local level, but considering Marxism tends to die out when it's approached by even a thimblefull of reality, I see almost no evidence for it in leadership positions in politics. The necessity of dealing with non-ideologues or ideologues of a different stripe is simply too prevalent, the consistent bombardment of real-world problems is simply too fierce. In all likelihood, the leadership, those with the most responsibility, they're probably the least Marxist of anyone, but ironically the most likely to be criticized for it because of their high profile.

You may simply be talking about redistribution of wealth, and policies associated with it. One need not be a Marxist to find redistributive programs desirable.

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ORIGINAL: Marcus.

np We can pick it up when you return later. Just a quick comment on Marxism, it seems to be the flavor of despotism these days.

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ORIGINAL: MrFribbles


I would say that's a fair assessment. Dr. Paul is effectively a Libertarian, in my opinion.

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ORIGINAL: iluvatar

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ORIGINAL: ljmac

Liberals:
- Attack our soldiers and defend terrorists

If that's the case, then:

Conservatives - Abuse soldiers and their families, taking for granted their willing sacrifice by taking a hawkish foreign policy stance, eschewing diplomacy, prematurely jumping into a war, and mismanaging it once we're in there.

But then, neither of those is completely accurate, are they?

-Dan.

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ORIGINAL: ljmac

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ORIGINAL: iluvatar

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ORIGINAL: ljmac

Liberals:
- Attack our soldiers and defend terrorists

If that's the case, then:

Conservatives - Abuse soldiers and their families, taking for granted their willing sacrifice by taking a hawkish foreign policy stance, eschewing diplomacy, prematurely jumping into a war, and mismanaging it once we're in there.

But then, neither of those is completely accurate, are they?

-Dan.

- John Kerry called our soldiers terrorists. And stupid. That's just the latest of a career built on smearing our armed forces.
- John Murtha called them cold-blooded murderers.
- Dick Durbin said our soldiers are like Nazis and barbarians.
- Obama accused our servicemen of "...just air raiding villages and killing civilians." Then he tried to cut off their funding.
- Al Gore went to court to have their votes thrown out of the presidential election.
- They fight the presence of ROTC on campuses
- In SF they refused a US WWII ship to serve as a memorial
- Ramsey Clark, Carter's Attorney General, served on Hussein's legal team. (That's Saddam, not Barak.)

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- Liberals have repeatedly exposed intelligence gathering techniques, increasing the likelihood that our guys will be wounded or killed.

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Liberals:
- Attack our soldiers and defend terrorists
- Fight to remove the cross from public display unless it's in a jar of urine
- Taught children to think oral sex isn't sex
- Believe in equality as long as long as white people have less of it
- Respect the Constitution that's in their heads, but hate the one written on paper
- Are charitable with other people's money, not their own
- Think putting to death convicted killers is bad, but paying baby killers is good
- Think marriage is out of fashion unless it's between sodomites
- Think owning a gun should be illegal, but stabbing a baby in the skull should be legal

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ORIGINAL: Marcus.

That's only part of it. It is Christian to give or help out people voluntarily. It isn't Christian to force it, yet the left seems to think forced charity is good and voluntary is bad. When we have the inevitable thread on charitable giving, we see numbers that show the right gives more out of pocket than the left. Yet I am left with the impression, that the left thinks the social programs paid for by our taxes are their charitable giving. If I didn't pay so much in taxes I could give to some more charitable groups I agree with. Instead of ones I abhor through my taxes.

Talk of our rights are enumerated in the Bill of Rights as being outlandish or obviously having limits does not sound American to me. Our rights are inalienable, not limited or by the leave of the government as in the rest of the world. I won't support anyone who talks in that manner about our rights. The more I read of our founding, the more our current approach not only strikes me as wrong but it strikes me as treasonous. We are unique among countries, individual rights are at the center of that along with the checks and balances on government. The countries that have collective rights strip away any notion of individual rights. Collective rights are only exercised by those governments and not citizens. But then again those countries don't have citizens but rather subjects.

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Disarming the citizenry. The need to be able to arm yourself for self defense is as present as it ever was. The reason for the Second Amendment is to be the final check and balance against our own government. Go back and read Jefferson, mason, Adams, et, al. Tyranny is what most governments either start out as or wind up becoming. I will never give up my weapons. Only someone with designs on changing our government against the wishes of the citizens ever need fear the armed citizen. Disarming the law abiding hurts only the law abiding and makes criminals lives easier. It is the tool of the despot. All the genocides of the last century were at the hands of the government or para-government organizations. Most started with disarming their citizens.

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ORIGINAL: Marcus.

As I understand it, Marxism is the parent to Communism and Socialism.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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Which is, in a nutshell, the point really isn't it? We are on a CHRISTIAN message board - aren't we supposed to be a little different than the world?

Isn't our hallmark supposed to be love-in all things? Faith hope and love, the greatest of these is love-if I have not love, I am a clanging cymbol-LOVE-isn't that supposed to be the name of the game?

The only thing I hate is that it has to be pointed out that there really is no need to hate in any form-disagree (on matter of policy, etc.), sure, but HATE-it's the opposite of LOVE, the thing we ALL as Christians are supposed to have regardless of how we believe.

So I take it you are a Coke drinker?

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ORIGINAL: devere

The terms liberal or conservative are entirely relative to CONTEXT, have become meaningless and should be dropped from political discourse.

For example, in the Russian world, conservative refers to communist hardliners who would want the resurrection of the USSR, while liberal would be those moving toward capitalism. In economics, at various times, conservatives or liberals have been for high tariffs, taxes and spending

Conservative merely reflects a desire to CONSERVE what is past.
Similarly Liberal means a future oriented approach to provide targets and goals

In a Christian sense, we are both conservative and liberal. We want to retain the faith of our fathers, the old time religion and the power of Word of God today. At the same time, liberal is a Christian teleological distinctive, an acknowledgment that the world is heading toward God's conclusion and the burdens of the past will continue to evaporate as time marches on to that goal.

In a political sense, I will hold true to the pro-life position as an adoptive, foster and World Vision parent. But that brings with it a few other reponsibilities.

I will have to contemplate which party would have sufficiently developed policies to accomodate the 40M additional people that would have been born post Roe v Wade. When I look at the statistics, I find it staggering that abortion rates are so much higher in "red states" as opposed to "blue states." So maybe, preaching to the choir in this case is to those outside the church. Finally, if Roe v Wade is reversed in its entirety, we have to cost out enforcement, processes and punitive measures. Already, we have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world (over 2M is enough to be the 51st state)

Secondly, it is critical to ensure that we don't ignore or compromise other critical Christian issues. One of the most troubling things about our current leaders example (and its showing) to the Christian teenagers is their lack of respect for authority, processes and accountability and their denial of facts which are so easily disproved by publicly available documentation. Additionally, we should never put people on a pedestal but I have noted that the Obama family has been a powerful role model for them. They are impressed that while Obama had Islam and broken family in his background that he chose to be a solid Christian family man. On the other hand, I am not so sure that I am comfortable with the present administration cosying up to those who financed 911, the Saudi Arabians who represent the worst of Islam at the expense of many Christian brethren in the middle east.

Finally, his issue of guilt by association is counterproductive. God calls some of us to the safe and secure places and others to the more dangerous depending on our ministry and strength. If we were to apply the current standard, then the 11 disciples could be slandered simply for sitting, dining and working with Judas Iscariot. Even, Jesus would be tarnished by it, because of his choice. Similarly, the biography of King David shows a man who worked along with some pretty unsavory characters and yet maintain his cool when ambition opportunities were presented to him often vis a vis King Saul.

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if Roe v Wade is reversed in its entirety, we have to cost out enforcement, processes and punitive measures. Already, we have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world (over 2M is enough to be the 51st state)