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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/31/2010 3:59:54 PM
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gralan
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Joined: 1/29/2010
From: RV in Texas
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In terms of focusing upon the words "required" and "poor" and how do we define that, the Bible plainly teaches two things:
(1) Love your neighbor the same way you love yourself. (this is an activity oriented term, it is not saying we need to be warm and fuzzy about our neighbor).
(2) Jesus defined neighbor in the parable of the Good Samaritan.
IMO, sometimes it seems we get too focused on why one word and not another was used or omitted? That is a translation we are reading, unless folks are reading the Greek autographs which I doubt are in existence.
Hello?
The Bible doesn't tell us to breathe deeply, or wash our underarms, or many other things. Let us sometimes look at ourselves and smile at our foibles and allow God to renew us. Thank you for reading this.
Peace in Him. Out!
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/31/2010 5:29:14 PM
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rrich1
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quote:
f you don't mind me asking, as you've been there--- you have live it (homeless & Christian), do you think it's a good thing if the USA moves closer to socialism (as in more tax on the wealthy to help the poor)?
I think it would be better if perhapse they gave more tax breaks to the people who individually help the poor in one way or another, but I don't think taxing people harder in this economy is going to help save anyone, it is just going to make the rich richer and the poor even poorer.
For evey extra tax on the rich, the poor get it trickled down on them eventually.
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/31/2010 5:41:54 PM
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rrich1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: willfs
I believe that Christians are commanded to love our neighbor. That is somewhat different than being required. I don't think our salvation depends on giving to the poor but out of our salvation comes a heart that wants to give to the poor.
As for goverment taking care of the poor. I think christians should use wisdom in this matter. As with probably most everything, if the goverment can do some task way better than anyone else can then they should do that. If there is some way the goverment can take care of the poor that is real effective and can't be done by others, or isn't being done, then maybe they should. In the old testament farmers were not supposed to cut some certain part of their field. That way the poor could come and get those parts for food. This seems wise. They are having to work some to get their food, thus, a steady job looks better to them as opposed to those who just receive handouts.
In my personal experience I see the church and other private groups taking care of the poor in a much more efficient, less heartless, and more personal manner than when our goverment tries to do this.
quote:
They are having to work some to get their food, thus, a steady job looks better to them as opposed to those who just receive handouts.
Except If you have ever been to a homeless shelter, most of them can't work. I was there, On the giving end, and on the recieving.
What I saw were the following:
1.) Young, uneducated women, with too many young children to be able to go to work. -- If they aren't educated, by going to work, they can only get minimum wage,or traffic something, How many kids do you think you can hire a baby sitter for on minimum wage?
*** I am all for them giving extra grant dollars, more than the normal amount, for them to return to school so that they can get a good job.***
2.) Older, single people, who aren't able to get social security, or that don't get enough social security to afford a place.
3.) Many people with of all ages with developmental problems(mild) or mental illness. I saw a great deal of the mental illness. Talking to themselves like someone else was there, rocking, making strange noises.
These are the people that are in the homeless shelters. These are the people that we need to be helping.
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 4/1/2010 11:12:23 AM
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ScottHightower
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Are we required to help? No
Should we help yes?
We should always help those in need if we can.
Deuteronomy 10:19 KVJ
Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Scott
http://thebestbiblestories.com/bible-trivia/
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 4/1/2010 12:36:44 PM
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gralan
Posts: 2315
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: RV in Texas
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GAL6.6-10
6. The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him.
7. Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.
8. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
9. Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.
10. So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.
In context this is talking about support; share all good things with those who teach (certainly doesn't mean evangelize them they are already believers), let us do good to all people, especially to those of the household of faith.
That means first and foremost we take care of our own.
Seems plain, in context, to me.
I've enjoyed reading the thread here. It has given me a chance to be educateed all the more. And I've been able to communicate off-forum with some of the posters to the glory of God.
_____________________________
suffering servant, gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
//freecourses.trinitytheology.org/
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 4/1/2010 1:12:01 PM
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SeminoleTom
Posts: 44
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rrich1
quote:
f you don't mind me asking, as you've been there--- you have live it (homeless & Christian), do you think it's a good thing if the USA moves closer to socialism (as in more tax on the wealthy to help the poor)?
I think it would be better if perhapse they gave more tax breaks to the people who individually help the poor in one way or another, but I don't think taxing people harder in this economy is going to help save anyone, it is just going to make the rich richer and the poor even poorer.
For evey extra tax on the rich, the poor get it trickled down on them eventually.
Thanks for the reply but I think I lost you. How is taxing the rich and installing new government programs for the poor make the rich richer?
And before anyone jumps me I by no means believe in a "spread the wealth" society where everyone has the exact same take home pay. Instead, I think a somewhat moderate tax on the rich to help the poor is not necessarily a bad thing.
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 4/1/2010 4:09:01 PM
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gralan
Posts: 2315
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: RV in Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SeminoleTom
quote:
ORIGINAL: rrich1
quote:
f you don't mind me asking, as you've been there--- you have live it (homeless & Christian), do you think it's a good thing if the USA moves closer to socialism (as in more tax on the wealthy to help the poor)?
I think it would be better if perhapse they gave more tax breaks to the people who individually help the poor in one way or another, but I don't think taxing people harder in this economy is going to help save anyone, it is just going to make the rich richer and the poor even poorer.
For evey extra tax on the rich, the poor get it trickled down on them eventually.
Thanks for the reply but I think I lost you. How is taxing the rich and installing new government programs for the poor make the rich richer?
And before anyone jumps me I by no means believe in a "spread the wealth" society where everyone has the exact same take home pay. Instead, I think a somewhat moderate tax on the rich to help the poor is not necessarily a bad thing.
I doubt there are few of the "rich" that attend to anything in these threads. Just for most folks information, Republicans have avered that someone earning $250,000.00 a year is middle class.
That's been ongoing for a long time. I don't know if everybody is paying attention, but my folks thought they were middle class earning $65k a year with two incomes.
But when Democrats or Republicans talk of middle class, they aren't talking about most of us, or our parents.
Helping to take care of the poor is whatever the Government decides it is going to be, along with all the lawyers that come to DC promoting certains programs, certain tax cuts, etc. This is how life in American politics is.
However, we as the Body of Christ have the mission of doing God's will. We should check our attitudes at the door when we go into our prayer closet, and listen. It will not be the same for every person, but we need to focus upon doing the will of the Father in our own lives. If not, we are disobedient, and that is not my opinion, it is the teaching of the Scriptures.
Please can we all learn to humble ourselves before our Master and learn what it is He (Jesus, in case anyone forgets) wants to happen in our lives? Please?
Thanks Tom for the thought provoking posts you have done. It has caused me to sit alone with our Father, and to discuss things with my wife. It has also caused me to respond here, now. Thank you again.
Your brother in Him,
Peace to all who live by the rule of the new creation!
Out!
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 4/1/2010 10:19:15 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 981
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gralan
quote:
ORIGINAL: SeminoleTom
quote:
ORIGINAL: rrich1
quote:
f you don't mind me asking, as you've been there--- you have live it (homeless & Christian), do you think it's a good thing if the USA moves closer to socialism (as in more tax on the wealthy to help the poor)?
I think it would be better if perhapse they gave more tax breaks to the people who individually help the poor in one way or another, but I don't think taxing people harder in this economy is going to help save anyone, it is just going to make the rich richer and the poor even poorer.
For evey extra tax on the rich, the poor get it trickled down on them eventually.
Thanks for the reply but I think I lost you. How is taxing the rich and installing new government programs for the poor make the rich richer?
And before anyone jumps me I by no means believe in a "spread the wealth" society where everyone has the exact same take home pay. Instead, I think a somewhat moderate tax on the rich to help the poor is not necessarily a bad thing.
I doubt there are few of the "rich" that attend to anything in these threads. Just for most folks information, Republicans have avered that someone earning $250,000.00 a year is middle class.
That's been ongoing for a long time. I don't know if everybody is paying attention, but my folks thought they were middle class earning $65k a year with two incomes.
But when Democrats or Republicans talk of middle class, they aren't talking about most of us, or our parents.
Helping to take care of the poor is whatever the Government decides it is going to be, along with all the lawyers that come to DC promoting certains programs, certain tax cuts, etc. This is how life in American politics is.
However, we as the Body of Christ have the mission of doing God's will. We should check our attitudes at the door when we go into our prayer closet, and listen. It will not be the same for every person, but we need to focus upon doing the will of the Father in our own lives. If not, we are disobedient, and that is not my opinion, it is the teaching of the Scriptures.
Please can we all learn to humble ourselves before our Master and learn what it is He (Jesus, in case anyone forgets) wants to happen in our lives? Please?
Thanks Tom for the thought provoking posts you have done. It has caused me to sit alone with our Father, and to discuss things with my wife. It has also caused me to respond here, now. Thank you again.
Your brother in Him,
Peace to all who live by the rule of the new creation!
Out!
I agree with Tom. When the rich are taxed, the cost gets passed on down the chain. The "rich" can care for the poor by offering them jobs. But, when the government keeps taking what the businessman earns, the businessman has to pass the cost on to his customer who then passes the cost on to someone else. It seems like we have been conditioned to think about caring for the poor in terms of catering to their physical needs and providing handouts. The best kind of assistance that can be given to any person is an opportunity to earn a living, to be challenged and to grow.
And yes, gralan, we the church need to humble ourselves and be willing to meet the poor where they are and walk the path toward righteousness with them. If we can move away from the programs and meet individuals where they are on the road of life and guide them to Christ, one person at a time we will become a righteous nation once again.
_____________________________
A man with a gun is a citizen. A man without a gun is a subject.
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 4/2/2010 2:14:14 AM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 614
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From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
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quote:
Is there ever a time when Jesus saw people in front of him hungry or needy and just turned his back on them? Didn't he feed the 5,000 because they would be too hungry to make it home without being fed?
If you read John 6, it's apparent that Jesus refused to become a meal ticket. Ultimately, socialist and demonized cultures experience massive corruption and starvation. This is hard-wired into the moral universe, and reflects God's just and condign judgment upon those who worship demons, including the State.
For example: Rhodesia was the breadbasket of southern Africa. Zimbabwe is a basket case -- they got what they wanted, socialism and tribalism. Should we lift a finger to interfere with their full enjoyment of what they demanded?
0bamacare brings the Zimbabwe philosophy to American medicine.
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 4/2/2010 9:41:38 AM
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gralan
Posts: 2315
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: RV in Texas
Status: online
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Hey there.
The text of Jesus' response was that He knew they wanted to make Him King, and that was not His mission. He told Pilate that His Kingdom was not of this world, otherwise His disciples would have taken up arms.
It is written that we should be doing good to all, but especially to the household of faith. It is written that we should engage in meeting pressing needs, so as not to be unfruitful.
If we think of our wallet as ours, of course we are going to have a problem with folks who just want more of our money. That's obvious.
In the course of our learning and being conformed into the image of Christ as Paul writes in Ephesians, corporately being built up into the full stature of maturity that is Jesus', we will grow up as His Bride. Bride not in the modern sense, but in the sense of the Biblical intent, which means having already been made a wife by betrothal.
If we remember Proverbs 31 tells us what the perfect wife is like. This should be the description of the Body of Christ. Perhaps a review of that chapter will remind us of Who we are supposed to be because of Whom we are married to and who we await to take us to the Marriage Supper.
In terms of being American, and in terms of being politically active, I for one place either of those in another category when considering the fact that I am a new creation called to live as an alien and stranger in this land because I'm looking forward to the City built by God. I abide as I can following the rules and laws of the world up to the point it conflicts with my faith in God and confidence in God's ability to do what God promised.
I'm sure that is the desire of all who post in these threads in His name.
By way of review, the conversation is not new, and the Jews were held accountable for not having followed what God taught them especially in regards to the poor, disenfranchised and aliens in the land. God only holds us accountable for what we know to do.
Tag, you're it. 
quote:
ORIGINAL: RJR_fan
quote:
Is there ever a time when Jesus saw people in front of him hungry or needy and just turned his back on them? Didn't he feed the 5,000 because they would be too hungry to make it home without being fed?
If you read John 6, it's apparent that Jesus refused to become a meal ticket. Ultimately, socialist and demonized cultures experience massive corruption and starvation. This is hard-wired into the moral universe, and reflects God's just and condign judgment upon those who worship demons, including the State.
For example: Rhodesia was the breadbasket of southern Africa. Zimbabwe is a basket case -- they got what they wanted, socialism and tribalism. Should we lift a finger to interfere with their full enjoyment of what they demanded?
0bamacare brings the Zimbabwe philosophy to American medicine.
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 4/2/2010 9:34:59 PM
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x_SoliDeoGloria_x
Posts: 105
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quote:
Rhodesia was the breadbasket of southern Africa. Zimbabwe is a basket case -- they got what they wanted, socialism and tribalism. Should we lift a finger to interfere with their full enjoyment of what they demanded?
I think that one of the points of the Sermon on the Mount was to tell us that if we are going to be guided by the spirit of the law rather than just the letter of the law (You have heard it said, but I say to you ...) we sometimes need to be more extravagant with our love than what a mere worldly sense of justice would require.
_____________________________
"Not by work going before grace shall I deserve grace, nor by my work following grace shall I deserve eternal life; but to him that believes, sin is pardoned and righteousness imputed." -- Martin Luther
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 4/3/2010 12:26:48 AM
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gralan
Posts: 2315
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: RV in Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: x_SoliDeoGloria_x
quote:
Rhodesia was the breadbasket of southern Africa. Zimbabwe is a basket case -- they got what they wanted, socialism and tribalism. Should we lift a finger to interfere with their full enjoyment of what they demanded?
I think that one of the points of the Sermon on the Mount was to tell us that if we are going to be guided by the spirit of the law rather than just the letter of the law (You have heard it said, but I say to you ...) we sometimes need to be more extravagant with our love than what a mere worldly sense of justice would require.
I think it's exciting to continue learning of the ways in which to apply plain teaching by Jesus. Thanks.
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 4/3/2010 5:12:13 AM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 614
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
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quote:
... we sometimes need to be more extravagant with our love than what a mere worldly sense of justice would require.
At what point, however, does "our love" become a sinful subsidy for sin?
God's law, which reveals His character, provides pragmatic ways to truly help the poor. The gleaning laws, for example, permit folks to provide for themselves, and to reveal their character through a willingness to work. This can lead to other opportunities. See the Book of Ruth. True, it takes more work to open up our lives and fields to the deserving poor, monitor and mentor their progress, and integrate them into our community of faith. However, there might be a David down that road!
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 4/3/2010 11:51:02 AM
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gralan
Posts: 2315
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: RV in Texas
Status: online
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I would hope that most of the Critics in here of helping the poor are more astute than to become an enabler for a lazy person.
Why is it so hard for them to imagine the rest of us cannot be that astute?
The arguments against helping the poor are so amazingly lacking biblical orientation. But they are very capitalist, very American, very politically oriented and very judgmental. That saddens me.
My father is a Kennedy-democrat, and my mother is a Bible-belt republican. Both assist the poor as they are able and drawn to it by the Holy Spirit and circumstance. There is no question in their mind, nor mine, about the situation.
Could someone email me and help me understand the position of how the Bible teaches us to actually NOT love other people by meeting real needs? Perhaps to start with, just deal with folks who are Christians who are in dire straits.
I'd like to know what Bible verses in context are being used to avoid assisting those who are in trouble socially, medically, physically, emotionally, financially, etc.
Thank you. BTW, how does the third year tithe apply to the social theory of making hungry people work for their food?
Does not the New Testament deal quite thoroughly with all the false charges made against the Jesus' and the Apostles Teaching about God's grace? I think it does, and quite adequately too.
Peace in Him. Out!
Thanks ahead of time for sending those emails to me: my addy is gcandj@gmail.com
quote:
ORIGINAL: RJR_fan
quote:
... we sometimes need to be more extravagant with our love than what a mere worldly sense of justice would require.
At what point, however, does "our love" become a sinful subsidy for sin?
God's law, which reveals His character, provides pragmatic ways to truly help the poor. The gleaning laws, for example, permit folks to provide for themselves, and to reveal their character through a willingness to work. This can lead to other opportunities. See the Book of Ruth. True, it takes more work to open up our lives and fields to the deserving poor, monitor and mentor their progress, and integrate them into our community of faith. However, there might be a David down that road!
< Message edited by gralan -- 4/3/2010 12:01:07 PM >
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 4/3/2010 4:29:57 PM
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PeterD
Posts: 956
Joined: 4/27/2007
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Hello Christian family and neighbors,
quote:
Are Christians required to help the poor?
The Lord Jesus went up on a mountainside sat down and began to teach saying,
The Beatitudes
2And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying:
3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4"Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5"Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
6"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 "Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Matthew 5:2-12
Leviticus 19:15 (King James Version)
15Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
Zechariah 7:10 (King James Version)
10And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart.
Matthew 26:6-13
Jesus Anointed at Bethany
6 Now when Jesus was at Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, 7a woman came up to him with an alabaster flask of very expensive ointment, and she poured it on his head as he reclined at table. 8And when the disciples saw it, they were indignant, saying, "Why this waste? 9For this could have been sold for a large sum and given to the poor." 10But Jesus, aware of this, said to them, "Why do you trouble the woman? For she has done a beautiful thing to me. 11For you always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me. 12In pouring this ointment on my body, she has done it to prepare me for burial. 13Truly, I say to you, wherever this gospel is proclaimed in the whole world, what she has done will also be told in memory of her."
James 2:12-13
Favoritism Forbidden
12Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!
PeterD
_____________________________
James 1:1
Greetings!!!
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes in the Dispersion:
Greetings!!!
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 4/5/2010 6:53:34 PM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 614
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
Status: offline
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quote:
BTW, how does the third year tithe apply to the social theory of making hungry people work for their food?
The third-year tithe was more like a sanctified block party, a periodic event. I've incorporated it into some of my science fiction short stories. EVEN AS crop rotation allows us to honor the land's necessary sabbath while maintaining a continual food supply, I can dream of how wonderful it would be if every church member in good standing blew a tithe of his income every third year on an amazing party. Invited all the neighbors, saved and unsaved. Had the pastor offer a brief devotional. Now THAT would be a witness to the character of the Kingdom as a wild and wonderful party. A church with 300 members would then have a gigantic party going on somewhere every other week or so. (100 members per year, over 52 weeks ... )
The routine heart of Biblical charity, however, is gleaning. Hard, hot, work, that treats the gleaner as a bearer of the divine image, rather than as a zoo animal.
MEANWHILE -- as we, for our sins, surrender nearly 4 times the Biblical tithe to the "god" of this age, the State -- the widespread practice of "tithing parties" is something to dream of. I think we can work towards that better day by practicing hospitality, a family-centric ministry that lets all the kids do hands-on ministry.
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 4/5/2010 7:10:19 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2866
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RJR_fan
For example: Rhodesia was the breadbasket of southern Africa. Zimbabwe is a basket case -- they got what they wanted, socialism and tribalism. Should we lift a finger to interfere with their full enjoyment of what they demanded?
I hope so, since that's essentially what God did for us in that while we were yet sinners he died for us. We got what He wanted for us, and not what we deserved and not what we demanded.
It's the heart of Christianity and the minimum we should consider.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Dort, wo man Buecher verbrennt, verbrennt man am Ende auch Menschen." - Heinrich Heine
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 4/5/2010 7:21:10 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1934
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RJR_fan
The routine heart of Biblical charity, however, is gleaning. Hard, hot, work, that treats the gleaner as a bearer of the divine image, rather than as a zoo animal.
What would big city applications of the gleaning principle be?
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 4/5/2010 9:19:46 PM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 614
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
Status: offline
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quote:
What would big city applications of the gleaning principle be?
What do you think? Goodwill Industries comes to mind. Used clothing stores. Rescue missions often have associated thrift stores. I once worked with a ministry that put street people to work helping the elderly with yard work, maintenance, minor repairs, etc.
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 4/5/2010 10:05:28 PM
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crankius
Posts: 3344
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Help must be defined by all the various counsel in scripture. Sometimes, it means giving a coat. Sometimes, it means giving a drink. Sometimes, it means providing work. Sometimes, it means saying no.
quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
I agree with Tom. When the rich are taxed, the cost gets passed on down the chain. The "rich" can care for the poor by offering them jobs. But, when the government keeps taking what the businessman earns, the businessman has to pass the cost on to his customer who then passes the cost on to someone else. It seems like we have been conditioned to think about caring for the poor in terms of catering to their physical needs and providing handouts. The best kind of assistance that can be given to any person is an opportunity to earn a living, to be challenged and to grow.
Agree.
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Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
God's Attributes
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 4/19/2010 4:21:38 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 1387
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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quote:
But obviously the need outstrips charity. If the government can help the poor, albeit in a less efficient manner, then who are we to say it shouldn't?
Because government charities cause poverty by the redistribution of wealth, taking it from those who provide jobs and giving it to those who cannot.
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Christians should be known for their compassion and cheerful heart, not judging whether people are deserving of their charity.
Stewardship. The resources given to us by God should be respected. A major problem with government charities is that its a nameless faceless institution without any investment into each person recieving charity.
When you know someone in need you can provide for them more effectively and with more assurance it is not a con or wasted.
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I'll bet most people who are down on their luck are so because of circumstances out of their control.
Extremely naieve.
You can take all of the funds in the world and redirect it into "curing poverty" and what you will accomplish is to create the poorest world ever imagined. Why?
Its not about money. Its about the heart. Its about which master you have. Its about integrity and honesty and work ethic. If you want the least amount of poor possible in this world, then you address these issues, free up those who create employment and provide an economic enviroment most able to succeed.
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I think a somewhat moderate tax on the rich to help the poor is not necessarily a bad thing.
It is a horrible thing that will cause poverty.
You do know that there are not enough rich to help all the poor? That when your politicians say they are going to tax the rich, that goes all the way down...to you. They lie to you. Right in your face they lie, and you eat it up because, you covet the rich and what they have or you would not condone stealing someone's hard earned monies to empower politicians and to create even more poverty.
What is worse is, the politicians know this...and it ain't on one side of the aisle either. The more they promise, the more they can be assured they will get re-elected...why? Because we sell our integrity for a handout from the government.
You do know with every government handout comes government control...right? We fear our discomfort so much we have sold our charactor to the government charity bit. We are guilted into government programs by smooth talking politicians with the compassion yoke.
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How is taxing the rich and installing new government programs for the poor make the rich richer?
Taxing the rich and how that effects the poor.
The rich got that way by making wise decisions with their money. If they are taxed more, they find ways to pass that on so they will not be effected.
They will raise their prices they charge.
They will lay off people.
They will not invest into their company to retool or expand it.
They will sell their company and just get out.
The rich will not be effected as much as the poor will be when they raise taxes on the rich.
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I would hope that most of the Critics in here of helping the poor
Please, show me one christian here who has proclaimed not to help the poor.
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But they are very capitalist, very American, very politically oriented and very judgmental.
So you prefer communism? Socialism? I don't understand why having a job created in a capitalist society is not preferred over being dependant on a socialist government program?
Judgemental....to discern the cure for someone's poverty it is essential to know the cause, so it is not repeated. EVERY government programs tries to do this ( and fails because it is secualr and denies the spiritual aspects of poverty ) with all the controls that comes with its money. Government charities are the height of judgementalism.
If you took away all the instances of substance abuse, pregnancy outside of marriage and all the other consequences of sin from people, poverty would be a very rare thing. If you call that judgementalism, then so be it. I prefer cures and REAL help, not just throwing someone else's money at a problem to make me feel less guilt i.e. government programs.
< Message edited by SonInMe1 -- 4/19/2010 4:28:22 AM >
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 4/21/2010 3:37:38 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 981
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
If you took away all the instances of substance abuse, pregnancy outside of marriage and all the other consequences of sin from people, poverty would be a very rare thing. If you call that judgementalism, then so be it. I prefer cures and REAL help, not just throwing someone else's money at a problem to make me feel less guilt i.e. government programs.
e
Great point Soninme. Having worked for the government with the worst of the worst, the poorest of the poor, and having been involved in church leadership, one of the things I can attest to is the entitlement mentality combined with the "privacy' aspect of our lives brought about by government involvement. When I worked as a probation officer and served as a deacon, our church had the opportunity to provide for several people in need. One of the things we tried was to become involved in their lives to the point we could get them to examine parts of their life to see where poor decisions and poor habits were contributing to their problems. Nearly all of those we tried to intervene in to this extent eventually declined our services. Having been a government employee also in a rural community I saw many of the same people go to other churches seeking help to cover expenses while those other churches did not seem willing to get to the root of the problem. This is the way the government operates. it avoids the root of the problem. Yet, community policing is about addressing the root. Politicians, however, are about getting elected by making promises to look out for those who are huritng. We need to quit looking to the politicians and realize we are the answer to poverty by the the great commission.
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A man with a gun is a citizen. A man without a gun is a subject.
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